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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Conclusion after many viewings...
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jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 3 2013, 8:17pm

Post #1 of 37 (1285 views)
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Conclusion after many viewings... Can't Post

I stand by my initial reaction of loving the film.

However, I can still easily admit that it's not as well made as LOTR. Purely from a film making standpoint, the film doesn't flow as well as any of the original trilogy. I'm hoping this problem only phases AUJ, since it was probably the film most affected by the trilogy switch.

Since seeing FOTR for the first time was my introduction to Tolkien, those films are perfect in every way for me. I even love the flaws and mistakes simply because they are in those films. It's almost like they could never do wrong by me.

It's strange now, to actually have some problems with a film in this franchise. Although I truly do love it, I recognize why the film has been received the way it has. I still don't feel it deserves the bashing that it's getting. It's a great film, the only thing hurting it is the fact that it's not a masterpiece.

I do feel that once the trilogy is completed, it will be looked back on very fondly. Kind of as the younger sibling who couldn't live up to it's big brothers impact. I also feel it's already done a far better job than Star Wars and Indiana Jones, as far as bringing back a franchise after many years.

Thanks PJ for a great film! Albeit, not an astounding one.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jan 3 2013, 8:42pm

Post #2 of 37 (678 views)
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You think this movie is the most affected by the switch? [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you think all this extra shooting is for? Wink

I think, just like LotR, the first movie is going to be the best of the trilogy. But not the most popular. I'm sure everyone will love the mad over-the-topness of the barrel escape and Bo5A. But I'm not anticipating much, the scenes I've been looking forward to the most are all in AUJ (minus conversation with Smaug). So it's all eye-candy from here on.

I will agree, though. AUJ will be a better film when viewed in context with the sequels.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jan 3 2013, 8:46pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Jan 3 2013, 8:43pm

Post #3 of 37 (675 views)
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Have to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe, especially given the context and situation surrounding AUJ, that it is indeed a masterpiece. And arguably as much so as any LOTR film, from a filmmaking standpoint.
It is an astounding film. It was never going to be a major critical success, no matter how it turned out.
And I applaud PJ for doing an excellent job with what he was given.


dubulous
Rohan

Jan 3 2013, 8:56pm

Post #4 of 37 (595 views)
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I'm with you [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, purely from film-making perspective, it might even be better than FOTR or any of the LOTR movies. Its greatest weakness, if you can call it that, is the fact that The Hobbit as a story doesn't quite have the same epicness as LOTR, so it doesn't necessarily evoke the same level of feelings as LOTR does, but from film-making viewpoint it holds its own and is, in some ways, even better than its predecessors.

I've seen it 7 times now and it still feel like I haven't had enough of it.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Jan 3 2013, 9:19pm

Post #5 of 37 (561 views)
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i, too, thought the filmmaking was incredible [In reply to] Can't Post

as good or better as PJ's filmmaking has ever been, really, even with some flaws here and there. editing, composition, cinematography, production design, sheer creativity...i was really in love with it. the film does have a unique flow to it, as it allows itself to take its time with some quieter scenes, like in Bag End or Rivendell, and then packs a wallop of an intense punch (dramatically and action-wise) with its last hour, but i think that just adds to the sense of confidence and character i get from the movie as a whole (the only scene where the execution felt expecially lacking to me was the Warg chase to Rivendell, but there are scenes in the original trilogy that are just as choppy and/or jarring).

no, the core story isn't as good as LotR. some of the added material is really waiting on further development in the next two movies before we can pass final judgment on it. but, man, that was a good movie. i'm really thankful for it.


ForestPark
Rivendell


Jan 3 2013, 10:16pm

Post #6 of 37 (509 views)
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Three hundred lives of men.... and now I have no time [In reply to] Can't Post

That my one criticism parts seemed forced or rushed the final cut happened only days before release. Smearing recycled music on scenes to hold them together.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 12:53am

Post #7 of 37 (425 views)
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In charm, humour and pace, it exceeds The Rings movies. [In reply to] Can't Post

In elegance and majesty, they exceed it, save in a few places like Erebor flashbacks and The Council scene. In terms of irrequisite bothersome changes. . . about equal for me. I really like Glorfindel, but the changes to The Moria Battle and Dwarf/Goblin war alter an entire motivation for events, rather than just the events themselves.

On the whole, I think Hobbit was as good in some ways as The Rings films, though less epic and solemn, and that is also appropriate.

In Reply To
I stand by my initial reaction of loving the film.

However, I can still easily admit that it's not as well made as LOTR. Purely from a film making standpoint, the film doesn't flow as well as any of the original trilogy. I'm hoping this problem only phases AUJ, since it was probably the film most affected by the trilogy switch.

Since seeing FOTR for the first time was my introduction to Tolkien, those films are perfect in every way for me. I even love the flaws and mistakes simply because they are in those films. It's almost like they could never do wrong by me.

It's strange now, to actually have some problems with a film in this franchise. Although I truly do love it, I recognize why the film has been received the way it has. I still don't feel it deserves the bashing that it's getting. It's a great film, the only thing hurting it is the fact that it's not a masterpiece.

I do feel that once the trilogy is completed, it will be looked back on very fondly. Kind of as the younger sibling who couldn't live up to it's big brothers impact. I also feel it's already done a far better job than Star Wars and Indiana Jones, as far as bringing back a franchise after many years.

Thanks PJ for a great film! Albeit, not an astounding one.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 4 2013, 1:03am

Post #8 of 37 (396 views)
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My measure is how much I want to go back [In reply to] Can't Post

Of the four movies, this is the one I have seen the most (six times) in the shortest span. I honestly think it has to do with character conflict. Once Borimir was gone, no one else in LOTR had any gut crunching conflict to me. Frodo was really more falling apart, and I just didn't see any serious angst. Here, there is character to spare, and you can feel the tension rising as they get further along the quest. I just find it kind of mesmerizing.


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 1:16am

Post #9 of 37 (380 views)
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It is meant to be a more humourous tale [In reply to] Can't Post

So obviously there will be more humour - though i think most of it is not that great - radagast as an example of bad humour.

The pace - way worse - i think this is down to the three film split taking place late in relation to this films release compared to the next two.

As the OP said it doesnt flow as well and it doesnt stand on its own quite so well, though this may be down to the source material - though lotr was also one story.

Charm - well like all we have discussed this is subjective. I would say charm depends on how much one likes something - they have to find it charming and be charmed by it. For me it is more fairytale which could be what you mean.

I think the colour correction is better in the hobbit - something i never thought i would say until i saw it in IMAX.

Like others have said here though i think it could come down to the source material of the lotr being that bit better (to some) than the hobbit for making a film.


flameofudun
Lorien

Jan 4 2013, 1:38am

Post #10 of 37 (374 views)
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7 times! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen it 3 and am going again tommorow. I need to catch up.Wink
I agree though, great movie can't get enough of it.

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 1:40am

Post #11 of 37 (399 views)
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The humour is surprisingly successfully British [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of American directors fail miserably at attempting what they think is British humour. It stems from a love of things like Monty Python, which to Americans looks silly and random. So they recreate silly and random things thinking it's "British" when in fact they're just not getting the original joke.

New Zealand has a lot in common with Britain and either Kiwis are better at understanding our humour or maybe Peter Jackson just knows our culture a little better than some. But The Hobbit really has a British feel to it (particularly the trolls). Which is perfect. Although, I agree Radagast is a bit much.

This gives me hope that PJ's Tintin will feel much more cultured than Spielberg's overly American attempt. Also, with HFR it could really be something to look forward to.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 4 2013, 1:52am

Post #12 of 37 (374 views)
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I just don't believe The Hobbit is up to LOTR standards... [In reply to] Can't Post

Though critics have been unfairly harsh, they aren't totally stupid. If this was a masterpiece on the level of LOTR, it would have a high RT score, best picture talk...the works.

Truly exceptional films usually get credit where credit is due. I'm sure there are exceptions to that, but I've been interested in film making far longer than I've been a fan of Tolkien.

To be fair, I feel The Hobbit works better as an adaptation. I don't think it works as well as a film that moves, and wonders the masses.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 1:55am

Post #13 of 37 (373 views)
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I think Freeman got it right [In reply to] Can't Post

and put in a fantastic performance.

I didnt think the Ori humour was funny or Radagast - though this was more for being OTT - i can imagine kids finding it hilarious though - i know i would have when a little kid. Other lines i think were meant to be funny - such as Gandalf telling Thorin to not speak were not funny to me as they felt like repetitions from the LOTR - i am guessing this was deliberately done to make people happy who spots them - it just irritated me as i felt too much was repeated.

For me i feel most comedy in the UK has moved on past Monty Python (not saying its bad - i like it, just its changed) but we also do have a unique sense of humour.

Dori was funny in his camp ways, gandalf had the odd moment. Gollum was funny and obviously Bilbo - MF deserves some award in my opinion - even his faint wasnt as bad as the trailer made out!


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 1:57am

Post #14 of 37 (354 views)
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7 times, gosh! [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you not get bored by it? Or is this something you do for most films you like?

I dont think i could watch any film that many times in such a short time frame so to me its interesting how others can.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 4 2013, 2:00am

Post #15 of 37 (374 views)
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I saw TTT 8 times in theatres... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ironic, since it ended up being my least favorite. I've seen AUJ 3 times in theaters, and 3 times in my own abodeWink

Not to mention re watching random scenes for discussion purposes (it's only a few clicks away!)

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 4 2013, 2:11am

Post #16 of 37 (365 views)
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British humour goes down really well in NZ. [In reply to] Can't Post

Black Books, Monty Python, Vicar of Dibley, Miranda, The Office, IT, Little Britain, Mrs Brown's Boys, QI - all have solid followings down here (although I find Miranda painful to watch).

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 2:12am

Post #17 of 37 (337 views)
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That is a fair few times! [In reply to] Can't Post

I havent been to the cinema more than i think 3-4 times for the same film.

I have bought ones i like on dvd and watched them more over time, but i think that is a little different as more time has passed.

As i said before - how was it not kinda boring?

The only movie i have watched loads and loads is Goldeneye on video when i was younger - i was obsessed with Famke Janssen (the woman who kills people with her legs) - i was 8 and it was love at first sight, haha.


glor
Rohan

Jan 4 2013, 2:12am

Post #18 of 37 (351 views)
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an exceptional exception... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Truly exceptional films usually get credit where credit is due. I'm sure there are exceptions to that



Bladerunner..

Mostly because it 'wasn't as good as as Ridley Scott's masterpiece, Alien'..

I am old enough to recall it's original cinema release, it death at the box office and the scathing reviews.



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2013, 2:29am

Post #19 of 37 (336 views)
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amazing [In reply to] Can't Post

one of the best scifi films ever...and it was ravaged by the critics you say? Not surprising....


I loved seeing it in the cinema. Still listen to the soundtrack regularly.

And i spotted Nanni Moretti, in rome, at the theatre, wearing a Tshirt with that beautifull Tears in the Rain speech written on it Heart


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 2:31am

Post #20 of 37 (349 views)
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Vicar of Dibley is the same for me [In reply to] Can't Post

cringeworthy just like My Family which is terrible!

The rest are great - have they heard of Teachers, or Inbetweeners or Peepshow?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 2:34am

Post #21 of 37 (331 views)
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Really? Goldeneye? I LOVED Tina Turner's performance of the Theme Song for it [In reply to] Can't Post

but otherwise. . . meh. lol. I saw Fellowship at least 11 times in theatres. I am on 5 for An Unexpected Journey.

In Reply To
I havent been to the cinema more than i think 3-4 times for the same film.

I have bought ones i like on dvd and watched them more over time, but i think that is a little different as more time has passed.

As i said before - how was it not kinda boring?

The only movie i have watched loads and loads is Goldeneye on video when i was younger - i was obsessed with Famke Janssen (the woman who kills people with her legs) - i was 8 and it was love at first sight, haha.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 2:38am

Post #22 of 37 (319 views)
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It was literally just for Xenia Onatop [In reply to] Can't Post

As i said - my first crush!

The rest - well i think its the best of Pierce's Bond movies but other than that its just meh as you say. But Famke who doesnt love her!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 2:48am

Post #23 of 37 (320 views)
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Lol. Understood. [In reply to] Can't Post

Very well understood. lol

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 2:53am

Post #24 of 37 (297 views)
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lol now im all [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 2:55am

Post #25 of 37 (303 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

No nude. . . I mean, no need. That was a genuine typo, but having seen it, I decided to leave it unedited. lol No need for embarassment. Nothing wrong with liking pretty girls and beautiful people. lol

In Reply To
Blush


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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