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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse

squire
Valinor


Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm


Views: 417
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Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse [In reply to] Can't Post

But to keep at it, why couldn't hunter-gatherers, who sing (I'm guessing singing didn't come too long after people spoke), tell stories around the fire about the gods who sang individually? Such as, "The god Serpens sang to the stream, and snakes were born. The god Florian sang to the sky, and flowers were born." Or whatever. In a way, it seems odd that no one ever thought of music as a creative force before. Instead creation usually sounds like the work done by a craftsman.
Thinking about your question, I wonder if the answer isn't due to the fact that music is fundamentally about rhythm and repetition. It's quality is not originality in the sense that a spark or a new idea seem original to us. Music, both acoustical and verbal (as in poetry), is prized for its virtue in helping with accompaniment and in remembering. The later inventions of harmonies and polyphonies are what makes more sophisticated and modern forms of art-music seem "original" to us, but I question whether older and less sophisticated cultures perceived or performed their music in that spirit.

You might say that the stories told around the campfire would have been sung, so as to be more easily remembered and kept unchanged, but the singers would never assume that the god-figures who created their universes were singing a song to execute the creation. Given the nature of music, that would imply that the universes were well-known and already occupying their usual cyclical places in space-time, which is the opposite of creation!




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Ainulindale CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 31 2012, 3:38am
    Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG! Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
        Why not sing the Aunur? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 31 2012, 10:22pm
            Tolkien seemed to have the same sentiments about evil CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 31 2012, 10:31pm
                Where it starts... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 31 2012, 10:53pm
        Nice--thought to music to sound CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 10:30pm
            Ulmo Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 2 2013, 5:15pm
                Sorry, I wasn't clear CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 2 2013, 6:37pm
                    Well, no... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 4 2013, 12:41am
        Regarding Ulmo Cyberia Send a private message to Cyberia Jan 2 2013, 8:09am
            I actually don't see the similarity Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 2 2013, 5:19pm
        saying Eä Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 9:32pm
    Hark to those herald angels singing squire Send a private message to squire Jan 1 2013, 2:35pm
        Excellent point CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm
            Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse squire Send a private message to squire Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
                Excellent insight--many thanks! // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 2 2013, 8:14pm
        Another sung creation- the Kalevala noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 3 2013, 4:54pm
        Creation is song The Gardener Send a private message to The Gardener Jan 5 2013, 6:00am
            Where's Eve? Or Varda? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 5 2013, 7:40am
                No women were mentioned by name Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 8:45pm
            Worship of Creation is song squire Send a private message to squire Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
    Should have read the brochure? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 1 2013, 7:14pm
        It does strike me every time I read it CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 9:25pm
        If we read that passage, perhaps it is not so clear Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 9:02pm
            I wonder about Tulkas leaving CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 3:30am
    Modern myth from modern things Mim Send a private message to Mim Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm
        Thanks--great points, especially CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 9:21pm
        myth and music (and Manwe) telain Send a private message to telain Jan 8 2013, 6:11pm
    I wonder if the creation myth of Arda was analogous to Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Jan 2 2013, 3:26am
    He was not far off of reality either............ Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Jan 4 2013, 9:31pm
    Tolkien's Representation of the Trinity KingTurgon Send a private message to KingTurgon Jan 4 2013, 9:45pm
        Jesus is Jesus Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 4 2013, 10:12pm
        For JRRT the events of ME were prior to Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Jan 4 2013, 11:18pm
        Gandalf, in some ways CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 4 2013, 11:32pm
            Allegories - Contrast to The Lord of the Rings? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 5 2013, 9:03am
                Earlier post KingTurgon Send a private message to KingTurgon Jan 7 2013, 8:25pm
        Jesus Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 5:56pm
            Interesting idea- glad you posted it // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 6 2013, 7:09pm
            I know this isn't really a religion thread, but... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 6 2013, 8:02pm
                Maybe "reluctant" isn't quite right, Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 8:41pm
                    Ah that passage Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 6 2013, 11:20pm
            Everyone's welcome to join in CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 9:14pm
                Thank you, and my apologies to Ardamire Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 10:19pm
    Without wishing to curtail this discussion- what are our plans for the next chapter? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 6 2013, 10:15pm
        We can take turns. Whoever wants to do the Valaquenta, just say so, and post when you'd like.// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 10:28pm
            Didn't get my edit inserted in time. More info: CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 10:51pm
                I will take the Reading Room to Valaquenta, though I... do not know the way. :) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 7 2013, 1:02pm
    A Beautiful Creation Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 10:24pm
    I looove this "chapter" Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 11 2013, 6:20am
        Good point about no one to sing to CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 3:28am
    Late for the party sador Send a private message to sador Jan 16 2013, 10:52am

 
 
 

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