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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
DOS: Legolas, Tauriel and Spiders

Ave Moria
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 8:58pm

Post #1 of 22 (1590 views)
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DOS: Legolas, Tauriel and Spiders Can't Post

Where do you guys think the video blog footage of Legolas fighting Orcs fits in? It's not bo5a, clearly.

Also, do you guys think that Orcs will somehow end up in Mirkwood? Lee Pace is shown doing fight choreography, so I am guessing it will be in DOS, and also bo5a.

Lastly, my main question...do you think The Mirkwood Elves will help save the Dwarves from the Spiders? This would make sense, considering the Elves are the type to "help" save the Dwarves so they can arrest them and see what in the world they are doing in their forest. Also, though the book is fabulous, Bilbo fighting so many Spiders off would be hard to believe on screen. It literally ends up being dozens and dozens. It might make sense for Leggy and Tauriel to show up...

Thoughts?

-In the Darkness, a torch we hold-


marillaraina
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 9:41pm

Post #2 of 22 (903 views)
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Well.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe there is a Lego set out right now(due to the change from 2 movies to 3) that features Legolas, Tauriel, Kili and Fili during the Spider scene in Mirkwood(going by the picture on the box they even have little "webs" for Kili and FIli to hang from the tree in LOL).

So I would assume that at least Legolas and Tauriel are involved in rescuing them from the spiders and I guess Kili and Fili at the very least feature prominently in the scene as captives. I don't know, maybe they are the first cut out from the webs and are able to kind of help in the fight to rescue the others?


Escapist
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 9:42pm

Post #3 of 22 (893 views)
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I will try to rewire my brain here ... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. Bilbo fighting off those spiders with his ring on and calling them names within the context of on-the-fly poetry was one of my favorite story moments - right up there with the butterflies ...

That being said I do understand the problems that this scene potentially create:
*talking spiders
*Bilbo single-handedly defeating so many foes so easily
*Bilbo putting the ring on so close to the necromancer

So you are suggesting that elves coming to the rescue and a large battle scene is in order. I could see this working but I don't know how much it requires a major overhaul of Bilbo's character arc. He is the burglar - not the rival to the dwarven throne at Erebor. I could see Bilbo starting it and taking on a couple spiders before the others get in on the fighting - led by Thorin and by Legolas (or maybe Tauriel). I could see contention from the start being interrupted by spiders chasing Bilbo. I could see a drop-in-and-rescue scene or maybe Legolas and / or Tauriel coming in behind after being on the hunt for spiders. Maybe Legolas finds them and is interrogating and Tauriel's group comes in after the spiders or vice-versa.

I ... guess ... that when I want to relive that great moment of JRRT's I am going to need to go find one of my books ...


Ave Moria
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 9:45pm

Post #4 of 22 (822 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

I LOVE that part of the book. Bilbo insulting the spiders is riveting...you can feel their crazed wraith right off the page and the desperation they feel to find and kill the source of the insults.

-In the Darkness, a torch we hold-


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 9:52pm

Post #5 of 22 (787 views)
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Same here, [In reply to] Can't Post

and, although others may disagree, one of the most frightening aspects is that they talk.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 10:01pm

Post #6 of 22 (841 views)
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Legolas and Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

do capture the dwarves. It was in the Comic-con footage shown this past July. I'm not sure if this is during the spider attack, though, or not.

Here's a link to comments by TORn staffers who saw the footage.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 10:01pm

Post #7 of 22 (792 views)
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Invisibility is easier in the book. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always felt that the invisibility of the ring worked better in the book than in the movies (where they have to be seen by the audience somehow). Bilbo taunting the spiders in the book works well because you don't have to see him. It would be less effective onscreen because we would "see" him the way they embody it onscreen. I also can't see the spiders being anthropomorphized for that scene (even Shelob onscreen was just a big, scary spider). So I can see it filmed as a big fight scene.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm

Post #8 of 22 (817 views)
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We've known that Legolas/Tauriel dispatch with the spiders then capture the elves for months. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


burrahobbit
Rohan


Jan 1 2013, 10:21pm

Post #9 of 22 (763 views)
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Wraith world [In reply to] Can't Post

I did like the effect when Frodo puts the ring on in FotR, and how it feels like a dangerous alternative dimension. PJ has gone for the same effect in AUJ when Bilbo puts on the ring against Gollum. But this is problematic for DoS- can we really believe Bilbo uses the ring so close to Dol Guldur when they've spent so much time building up the Necromancer as Sauron?

Maybe Bilbo does not use the ring in the Spider attack, and only uses it later after being captured by the wood elves, or manages to evade capture without the ring. It's also possible he doesn't reveal he has the ring to the dwarves.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 10:27pm

Post #10 of 22 (764 views)
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Bilbo will use the Ring in Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

As he is the only one to understand the Spiders, when the Ring is on.

Smile

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



burrahobbit
Rohan


Jan 1 2013, 10:36pm

Post #11 of 22 (768 views)
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"Do not put it on... agents of the dark lord will be drawn to its power" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like them to stick to the Hobbit book too, I'm just wondering how difficult it's going to be when this adaptation is emphasising consistency with Lord of the Rings so strongly, and the return of Sauron is a major story thread.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 10:50pm

Post #12 of 22 (737 views)
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Good point. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo doesn't know at this point what the ring is, and does not seem to intend to use it for power. So there should be no attraction, no draw for Sauron, especially as he didn't know Gollum had it either. Now I'm wondering too if they'll add that dimension, of Sauron (the Necromancer) somehow being aware that Bilbo is using the ring?

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 10:51pm

Post #13 of 22 (760 views)
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Capture the elves? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Mardragon
The Shire

Jan 1 2013, 10:57pm

Post #14 of 22 (744 views)
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Concerning Bilbo and the ring in Mirkwood. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But this is problematic for DoS- can we really believe Bilbo uses the ring so close to Dol Guldur when they've spent so much time building up the Necromancer as Sauron?


That's a good point. I never really thought of that.

That being said, I don't think wearing the ring is as much an issue in this time period as Sauron is a lot less powerful and I don't think he can see as far. Also, I think we tend to underestimate just how big these forests actually are. Murkwood is HUGE.

Besides, who's to say he didn't detect something, but he has other things on his mind, like the attack of the White Council?

I really hope that Bilbo does use the ring in his battle with the spiders and that things pan out similarly to how they do in the book. With the exception of the spiders speaking. We know from Shelob's depiction in the third film that they can provide a lot of character to these creatures. I don't think they'll have difficulty depicting an enraged spider!

I was a bit worried about how the world would be depicted when the ring is worn in the Hobbit, due to how it is shown in Lord of the Rings. Particularly as there's a lot more interaction with the physical world in The Hobbit and the real world tends to look rather vague when wearing the ring, unlike it's depiction in the book where things appear to look the same, with the exception of wraiths and the Eldar.

The depiction in The Hobbit worked rather well though. It kept that sense of a shadow world, but you still see things fairly clearly. Intersperse scenes in the shadow world of Frodo attacking spiders with views in the physical world of the creatures reacting to an invisible foe.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jan 1 2013, 11:03pm

Post #15 of 22 (748 views)
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Spiders talking [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe they could sound like a whispering/hissing voice when Bilbo has the ring on or something like that.


Mardragon
The Shire

Jan 1 2013, 11:37pm

Post #16 of 22 (694 views)
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That's creepy.... I like that! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Maybe they could sound like a whispering/hissing voice when Bilbo has the ring on or something like that.


They seem to be depicted as more spiritual beings in the film than the book after all. Which makes sense if they are descendants of Ungoliant. Not to suggest they're actually twisted maia (If Ungoliant was a maia, that was never made clear except that she was a dark spirit of some kind) but part of that essence may live on through her mortal offspring.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 2 2013, 12:21am

Post #17 of 22 (656 views)
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This. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Maybe they could sound like a whispering/hissing voice when Bilbo has the ring on or something like that.

I'm usually against the whole talking animals thing, but this actually sounds like it could really work.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 2 2013, 12:24am

Post #18 of 22 (649 views)
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I really like that! [In reply to] Can't Post

It would add to the advantage the Ring has for Bilbo. And make the spiders more frightening :)

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 2 2013, 12:30am

Post #19 of 22 (684 views)
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This was previously reported... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
http://newboards.theonering.net/...uest=64398225#515025


In Reply To
Maybe they could sound like a whispering/hissing voice when Bilbo has the ring on or something like that.




Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 2 2013, 12:41am

Post #20 of 22 (634 views)
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Thank you, Bladerunner, [In reply to] Can't Post

October was so long ago! Time to read it all again.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 3 2013, 11:00pm

Post #21 of 22 (408 views)
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I think, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

We will see orcs in Mirkwood, presumably Azog and his crew pursuing the dwarves. The 'hunt' sequences and encounters with the elves then make it more like a patrol against the orcs. This certainly makes sense, since they would be intruding into the Elvenking's domain, and Thranduil certainly is trying to keep his borders free of spiders and dark creatures. Since there was an unused sequence in FOTR with Haldir and his elves wiping out some orc pursuers in Lorien, we might actually get to see that this time.

I hope that they don't do terribly much with Bilbo's rescue of the dwarves from the spiders and hand that over to the elves. It's sort of Bilbo mythology that probably needs to be canonically handled. I doubt the capture of the dwarves will be done in two parts. (Thorin first, then the rest). However, I can see the end of the spider rescue dovetail quickly into a capture by the elves. Bilbo, of course, will escape via the Ring. This was even implied by a picture of Gloin covered in webs and an elven hand holding what appears to be his locket.

Having too many action sequences can really cheapen the overall effect of any story line, so I wonder how much they are going to cram into DOS. As for Bilbo taking on lots of spiders, they aren't Shelob, but lesser descendents. I didn't really get a good feeling for size from the brief glimpse we got at Rhosgobel, but they didn't seem as large as they might be. I need to see it again!


marillaraina
Rohan

Jan 4 2013, 4:14am

Post #22 of 22 (402 views)
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Hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Since there was an unused sequence in FOTR with Haldir and his elves wiping out some orc pursuers in Lorien, we might actually get to see that this time.


Remember Phillipa mentioned in an interview that Tauriel was going to be doing something they had wanted to use in LOTR but hadn't ? Could it have something to do with that?

 
 

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