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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Saruman talks to the Council about the Seven Rings in this production video
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irasel
The Shire


Jan 1 2013, 5:17pm

Post #1 of 68 (1663 views)
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Saruman talks to the Council about the Seven Rings in this production video Can't Post

At 0:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiodRjlAvos

Do you think it was saved for the Extended Edition of AUJ or completely discarded? Maybe it belongs to a second White Council meeting in DoS? Will it be connected to Gandalf's meeting with Thrain in Dol Guldur?

Concerning Thrain, I think the meeting could be depicted as TWO meetings instead of one:

1) Gandalf meets Thrain on the road first (not in Dol Guldur). Thrain feels that he will not be able to recover his kingdom, so he gives the key and the map to Gandalf so that he passes it to Thorin. Then they part. It could be shown as a flashback in AUJ Extended Edition or in DoS.

2) The Necromancer captures Thrain. Later Gandalf meets "zombie" Thrain in Dol Guldur while investigating the fortress. Gandalf manages to dispel the black magic affecting him. Thrain comes to his senses and he explains he has lost the last Dwarven Ring to the Necromancer. Then he "dies" once and for all. It would probably be shown in DoS.

In my opinion, Gandalf hasn't visited Dol Guldur in the first movie yet. He looks surprised at Radagast's report about an active malevolence in the old fortress.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 5:21pm

Post #2 of 68 (742 views)
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My guess is that it'll be in the EE, [In reply to] Can't Post

if anywhere.


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 5:34pm

Post #3 of 68 (721 views)
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DoS [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm guessing DoS. The White Council meeting in AUJ had nothing to do about dwarf rings. Saruman is still denying any Sauron existence. It must be antother Council meeting after the Necromancer is revealed as Sauron or at least Thrain is seen at Dol Guldur.

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 5:59pm

Post #4 of 68 (676 views)
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But it's the same set [In reply to] Can't Post

And I don't see Gandalf going back to Rivendell for another meeting. I'm guessing it's just an extended bit from the AUJ council, and I hope it's in the EE.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Lightice
Lorien

Jan 1 2013, 6:26pm

Post #5 of 68 (639 views)
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I believe that it's a scene that has been relocated [In reply to] Can't Post

In the original script Gandalf was probably supposed to find out the Necromancer's true identity earlier, but when they shifted to a trilogy, they delayed the big reveal, most likely to DoS. In that context the scene no longer made sense, so it was cut. I imagine that the dialogue will be moved into a more appropriate location. Ofcourse there is the question of where the White Council will convene for the next time; there really aren't that many locations available in the vicinity of Mirkwood. It's possible that PJ will invoke the projection of mental image once more, and have Gandalf projecting himself to Rivendell to complete the scene. Canonically wizards are able to do something like that even in the books; Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli saw Saruman's spirit spying on them on the edges of Fangorn in Two Towers, as I recall. Gandalf even confirmed that it certainly wasn't him.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 6:32pm

Post #6 of 68 (612 views)
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Perhaps they will meet... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Of course there is the question of where the White Council will convene for the next time; there really aren't that many locations available in the vicinity of Mirkwood.


in Rhosgobel?

That would be great to see, Saruman looking around scornfully at the clutter and critters, and Galadriel trying to keep her dress clean Smile

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Jan 1 2013, 6:52pm

Post #7 of 68 (561 views)
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Love it! (NT) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 6:54pm

Post #8 of 68 (610 views)
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Green screen [In reply to] Can't Post

The only Saruman part I saw in that clip was Christopher Lee being filmed seated in front of a green screen.

Since Galadriel can teleport or project, certainly Gandalf can. He basically did to teleport into Goblin Town. I doubt Saruman actually rode to Rivendell either.

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 6:55pm

Post #9 of 68 (619 views)
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McCoy has suggested that ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast and Saruman have no scene together.

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 6:56pm

Post #10 of 68 (562 views)
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Wishful thinking :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've heard that too, but still like the idea of all 3 Wizards seen together at some point.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Lightice
Lorien

Jan 1 2013, 7:01pm

Post #11 of 68 (547 views)
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I hope that, too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've heard that too, but still like the idea of all 3 Wizards seen together at some point.


I would like to see all the known Istari in one shot, at least once, as well. But that remains to be seen. Anyway, I doubt that the Council would be brought to a location that is dominated by Radagast's character. PJ seems to make a point of keeping silly and solemn scenes separate and not mixing them too much.

The only reason to leave Radagast out of the first meeting would have been to keep him from spoiling the mood. If Radagast does meet with the rest of the Council at some point, I suspect that he's going to fade to the background, rather than steal the scene. That would be hard to do at his own home, and making the meeting comical might rob the drama of the big reveal about Sauron.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 7:06pm

Post #12 of 68 (552 views)
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It would be great if all 3 of them interact! [In reply to] Can't Post

And there have been suggestions of further filming this year for Radagast, so who knows.

At some point, Gandalf and Radagast are at Rhosgobel, and Galadriel is in some way connected with the Battle of Dol Guldur. There must be some sort of meeting there.

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 7:08pm

Post #13 of 68 (544 views)
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Oh, I missed that! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
At some point, Gandalf and Radagast are at Rhosgobel...


Where was it mentioned and/or shown?

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 7:10pm

Post #14 of 68 (577 views)
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Hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

I watched it a couple weeks ago. I could have sworn Christopher was at least sitting on the same chair as in AUJ. If not, it's certainly possible it's for another council scene.

And I do not like the teleporting idea. At. All. I pray they leave it ambiguous so I don't have to try and justify it to myself.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 7:15pm

Post #15 of 68 (540 views)
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Maybe I should have said the Rhosgobel-area [In reply to] Can't Post

We haven't had any confirmation yet - but we've had hints of the 32 wizards being around the Rhosgobel area (see the end of vlog 9). But I imagine we'll see more of it anyway - they wouldn't have built that set just to bring Seb back to life!

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Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 7:17pm

Post #16 of 68 (547 views)
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Holy crap [In reply to] Can't Post

All 32 wizards at the same place at the same time!?

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 1 2013, 7:22pm

Post #17 of 68 (517 views)
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32? Or did you mean 3? / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 7:25pm

Post #18 of 68 (522 views)
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A Rainbow of Wizards! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 1 2013, 7:38pm

Post #19 of 68 (487 views)
Shortcut
Radagast the Brown, meet Bob the Vermillion. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 7:38pm

Post #20 of 68 (515 views)
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You can't name all 32 Wizards?! [In reply to] Can't Post

There's: Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, 2 Blue Wizards 27 other multi-coloured Wizards.
Tongue

I'll blame it on my fat fingers, and the fact 2 and 3 are together. Laugh

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 1 2013, 7:39pm)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 7:41pm

Post #21 of 68 (487 views)
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I've spoken for Green! [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I'm not really a Wizard...Frown

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm

Post #22 of 68 (477 views)
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Matthew the Xanadu. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Lightice
Lorien

Jan 1 2013, 7:49pm

Post #23 of 68 (508 views)
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No teleportation, projection [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And I do not like the teleporting idea. At. All. I pray they leave it ambiguous so I don't have to try and justify it to myself.


PJ has used it several times now, with Aragorn and Arwen, Elrond and Galadriel, and most recently Galadriel and the rest of the Council. And as I said, it's even in the books. I see no reason why it couldn't be used again, as well.


Glum
Bree

Jan 1 2013, 7:51pm

Post #24 of 68 (499 views)
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The video? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never seen this video before... Was it released by the PJ team or is it unofficial?


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 7:55pm

Post #25 of 68 (490 views)
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B-roll [In reply to] Can't Post

It gets put out officially by the studio.


Quote
"B roll" also refers to footage provided free of charge to broadcast news organizations as a means of gaining free publicity. For example, an automobile maker might shoot a video of its assembly line, hoping that segments will be used in stories about the new model year.


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