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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some geeky (or otherwise) observations, and questions that need answering
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Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 1 2013, 8:17am

Post #1 of 79 (2102 views)
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Some geeky (or otherwise) observations, and questions that need answering Can't Post

Just got back from viewing #4 and while I wait (eagerly!) for gramma's official Geeky Observations, I'll share mine. Feel free to clarify if I got something wrong -- I was really wishing I had pen and paper to scribble my thoughts down.

Thoughts, musings, answers, additions, corrections, or even funny noises welcome!

********************

There’s a basket of apples by (young) Bilbo’s front door – the perfect thing for a walk, according to Sam in LOTR (book), and what we see hobbits (is it just Merry? I forget now) eating in FotR (movie).

Young Bilbo’s Bag End is perfectly, Martha-Stewartly-tidy, in stark contrast to the absolute clutter of old Bilbo’s Bag End.

Dwalin and two other dwarves (I think it was Ori and Oin but I could be remembering wrong) stand in the doorway to the right when Thorin enters Bag End; Oin and Ori bow their heads to him as he walks in, Dwalin doesn’t.

Thorin gives Gandalf a glimmer of a knowing smile when Kili enthusiastically asks Gandalf how many dragons he’s killed.

Dwalin has letters “B” and “A”, if I remember right, tattoed on two knuckles (couldn’t see the others) – “Bad Ass”?

When Bofur teases Bilbo mercilessly about how Smaug will roast him alive, Bilbo finally concludes “No” and falls flat to the floor. Gandalf pushes past Bofur muttering sarcastically, “Very helpful, Bofur” (or words to that effect). Is that the only time we’ve seen Gandalf be sarcastic?

The look that passes between Balin and Gandalf when Thorin says that Azog was slain long ago. They obviously don’t believe that is true. Why not?

One of the Dwarves (I think Dori, but could be remembering wrong) appears to spear a troll up his backside during the troll fight.

When Thorin kicks Kili in the back right after Kili denies having worms, and then Kili and the other Dwarves cotton on and start proclaiming how infested they are, I can’t help but think it’s like something straight out of Monty Python. (I love Thorin’s eye roll there, too.)

I love Thorin’s look at Kili as they huddle below the rock with the Orc and Warg over them: he looks at Kili (“You!”), looks pointedly down at Kili’s bow (“Use that thing!”), and nods his head up at the Orc (“NOW!”).

Thorin’s fighting style, at least post-Azanulbizar, appears to have far more flair and panache than anyone else’s; tough warrior Dwalin is fierce but business-like, and while most of the others come across as superb fighters, I don’t think they can match those two. (Is Thorin’s style less developed in the Battle of Azanulbizar?)

NZ Strider wants to know if Lorien has any tailors, and if so why they haven’t managed to hem Galadriel’s dress adequately. What was it made for, an entwife?

After the stone giant crash, when Thorin sees that the other dwarves are okay, he’s clearly still focused just on his nephew, and says with a moan of relief what sounds like “Oh, Kili, oh…”.

Also after the stone giant crash and subsequent reunion, just after Thorin ushers them into shelter, we see Fili crouched over Kili, holding his hand, before Kili gets up. What a lovely touch between the brothers. (Or is it just Fili giving Kili a hand up? I like the idea of holding hands better.)


Vaire
The Shire


Jan 1 2013, 8:56am

Post #2 of 79 (976 views)
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Good list [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The look that passes between Balin and Gandalf when Thorin says that Azog was slain long ago. They obviously don’t believe that is true. Why not?


I think it's more that they know there is no absolute proof that Azog is dead. Thorin has convinced himself that it's true, and perhaps doesn't want to contemplate the alternative. Balin and Gandalf are just being more practical.


Quote
When Thorin kicks Kili in the back right after Kili denies having worms, and then Kili and the other Dwarves cotton on and start proclaiming how infested they are, I can’t help but think it’s like something straight out of Monty Python. (I love Thorin’s eye roll there, too.)


Maybe I just have a crude sense of humour, but I love that scene.




dubulous
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 9:09am

Post #3 of 79 (911 views)
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Perhaps Galadriel's dress is to hide the fact she is actually a dwarf on stilts. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 9:13am

Post #4 of 79 (955 views)
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I think it was Oin... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
One of the Dwarves (I think Dori, but could be remembering wrong) appears to spear a troll up his backside during the troll fight.


And I think he kicked him. Poor Troll.

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Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 1 2013, 10:16am

Post #5 of 79 (911 views)
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Thanks! :-) [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When Thorin kicks Kili in the back right after Kili denies having worms, and then Kili and the other Dwarves cotton on and start proclaiming how infested they are, I can’t help but think it’s like something straight out of Monty Python. (I love Thorin’s eye roll there, too.)


Maybe I just have a crude sense of humour, but I love that scene.




Actually, I love that bit too. I also find it funny that at first only Thorin gets what Bilbo is trying to do.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 1 2013, 11:05am

Post #6 of 79 (878 views)
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Can't be...no beard.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 1 2013, 1:33pm

Post #7 of 79 (877 views)
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Similar to your last item [In reply to] Can't Post

Right before the stone giant separates Fili and Kili by standing up, one of them yells to the other "Take my hand!" in an effort to stay together, but they can't bridge the distance. I love seeing the interaction between the two brothers.


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jan 1 2013, 1:34pm)


Macfeast
Rohan


Jan 1 2013, 1:47pm

Post #8 of 79 (878 views)
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Dwalin's knuckles spell out "Baruk Khazad". // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 1 2013, 2:05pm

Post #9 of 79 (846 views)
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Nice! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the list Roheryn! Really good observations.

Especially about Dwalin not bowing to Thorin. I hadn't noticed that, even after 2 viewings. That's mighty interesting. Loyal but not subservient? Is there no one Dwalin would bow to? Maybe Dwalin will bow to Thorin before the end of TABA?


Quote
Thorin’s fighting style, at least post-Azanulbizar, appears to have far more flair and panache than anyone else’s; tough warrior Dwalin is fierce but business-like, and while most of the others come across as superb fighters, I don’t think they can match those two. (Is Thorin’s style less developed in the Battle of Azanulbizar?)


I think Balin showed even more sword skill and flair than Thorin did. During a brief shot during the Goblin Town escape, Balin was shown doing some rapid blade flourishes (moulinets, to be technical) during combat. I think Balin is supposed to be the fighter who relies the most on skill and finesse, in contrast to Dwalin who relies on muscle and brute strength. Thorin also showed quite a bit of skill but not to the extent shown by Balin. Thorin seems to rely on a bit of both skill and strength, plus his royal-born courage.


Quote
When Thorin kicks Kili in the back right after Kili denies having worms, and then Kili and the other Dwarves cotton on and start proclaiming how infested they are, I can’t help but think it’s like something straight out of Monty Python. (I love Thorin’s eye roll there, too.)


This was a great bit Laugh It was Oin who says: "I've got parasites the size of me arm!" And Kili hastily chimes in with something similar. I was watching for this especially during my 2nd viewing, because after the 1st viewing I wasn't sure if it was Oin or Gloin who said the line, and also I was listening for the exact line during 2nd viewing, which i couldn't quite remember from the 1st viewing.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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ShireHorse
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 2:56pm

Post #10 of 79 (801 views)
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Great list, Roheryn! [In reply to] Can't Post

Richard Armitage said that he tried to make the fighting styles of Young Thorin and Older Thorin different to indicate the differences in age and experience. You noticed. I think he would be pleased, LOL!

Somewhere I read that Galadriel's dress was so heavily weighed down with crystals that the material stretched and it had to be hacked off at the bottom at the last minute.


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


Jan 1 2013, 3:13pm

Post #11 of 79 (792 views)
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Nice list! [In reply to] Can't Post

Following on, I like Bilbo sneaking his pony (Myrtle?) an apple. That reminded me of Merry and Pippin and their apples. And when we first see Frodo at Bag End, he's eating an apple.

The dwarves lining up inside the gate of Erebor as Smaug crashes through reminded me of the Gondorians lining up inside the gate of Minas Tirith as Grond crashes through.

But then, there are lots of scenes that are shot from the same angles, etc., as in LotR. Like Thorin cutting off Azog's hand the way Isildur cuts off Sauron's. Thorin shouting "Dragon!" the same way one of Faramir's rangers shouts "Nazgul!" Thorin screaming "Nooo!" as Thror is killed the way Frodo shouts "Nooo!" as Gandalf falls. (That "Nooo!" is a movie cliche, though.)

Gollum says "up up" in the same voice he says "up up" to Frodo and Sam before they climb the stairs outside Minas Morgul....

You'd think these movies were related somehow Tongue




Magpie
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 3:19pm

Post #12 of 79 (807 views)
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Gollum sings a song ... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that has the same tune as the one he sings at the Forbidden Pool. By time I realized it was the same tune, it was too late to catch the lyrics so I don't know if the words are the same or just the tune.

Come to think of it, in TTT, he's bashing a fish against a rock. Is he singing that song when he's basing the Goblin with a rock?


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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


Jan 1 2013, 3:27pm

Post #13 of 79 (787 views)
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I think that's his bashing song, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

And a heartfelt yecccchhh! to that thought! Unsure




Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jan 1 2013, 3:35pm

Post #14 of 79 (784 views)
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The song he's singing in AUJ [In reply to] Can't Post

uses lines from the "Fish" riddle - "alive with breath, as cold as death, etc..."


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 3:36pm

Post #15 of 79 (811 views)
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Observation: Were the dwarves using Rivendell furniture for firewood? [In reply to] Can't Post

Between that and the table that Bombur broke, I won't be surprised if Elrond shows up at Battle of Five Armies demanding compensation for the damage to Celebrían's favorite parlor furniture.
Including compensation for mental anguish and sentimental value ;0).



ryouko
Lorien

Jan 1 2013, 3:49pm

Post #16 of 79 (771 views)
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brothers [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Right before the stone giant separates Fili and Kili by standing up, one of them yells to the other "Take my hand!" in an effort to stay together, but they can't bridge the distance. I love seeing the interaction between the two brothers.


I loved that as well! I look forward to seeing more interactions between those two in the next movies. I'm sure it'll make the final scene even more poignant.

ARGH!!! 2014 hurry up and get here already! No...wait...don't. Not sure I'm ready for the ending of it yet. Unsure


Magpie
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 3:52pm

Post #17 of 79 (752 views)
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The TTT one also comes from a riddle [In reply to] Can't Post

but I think (I'd have to go recheck the entire riddle in Riddles in the Dark) that the lines in TTT are from the additional lines added when he retells it to Sam in the Dead Marshes.

http://www.amagpiesnest.com/...ollums_fish_song.htm

Thanks for confirming the AUJ lines.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Jan 1 2013, 3:52pm)


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 4:00pm

Post #18 of 79 (780 views)
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Yes, they were burning elf furniture. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Between that and the table that Bombur broke, I won't be surprised if Elrond shows up at Battle of Five Armies demanding compensation for the damage to Celebrían's favorite parlor furniture.
Including compensation for mental anguish and sentimental value ;0).


I saw that and thought it was a great bit. You could read it as their dislike of elves, or just general lack of decorum.


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 4:39pm

Post #19 of 79 (770 views)
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Thrain still "missing" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Especially about Dwalin not bowing to Thorin. I hadn't noticed that, even after 2 viewings. That's mighty interesting. Loyal but not subservient? Is there no one Dwalin would bow to? Maybe Dwalin will bow to Thorin before the end of TABA?


King Thror was killed at Azanulbizar which left Thrain King. While the dwarves knew Thrain went mad in grief and went missing, none knew if Thorin's father was actually dead. Thorin hopes he is not, hope he is found, and doesn't want to usurp the throne. Balin, when recounting the story of Azanulbizar, says about Thorin, "There is one whom I can follow as king." -- Not king, Just as if he could be king. Both Balin and Dwalin are recognizing Thorin's desire to serve in Thrain's absence. Therefore, Dwalin in being respectful by not bowing to Thorin. The younger dwarves, likely not ever having known Thrain, already consider Thorin king.

This is a story change that makes finding Thrain necessary to the film.

Dwalin will correctly bow to Thorin once Thrain is dead.

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 4:49pm

Post #20 of 79 (779 views)
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Use of colloquialisms... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ori says something about sticking something up Smaug's "Jackson."

Nori says something about seeing Bilbo sneaking away right when the goblin's "collared" them.

Those terms seemed a bit too slangy for me and momentarily took me out of the Middle-earth experience.



Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 4:59pm

Post #21 of 79 (722 views)
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Obsession due to Ring? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Young Bilbo’s Bag End is perfectly, Martha-Stewartly-tidy, in stark contrast to the absolute clutter of old Bilbo’s Bag End.

Old Bilbo's Bag End was very messy. I don't believe this is due to him loosening up after his journey. It is his obsession with the One Ring growing on him. Remember at the beginning of LotR, he momentarily thinks he's lost the Ring, tears the place apart, and then finds it in his pocket. He doesn't clean the place up.

At the beginning of The Hobbit movie, Frodo brings him the invitation replies and it's like he completely forgot about the party. Also the hoarding of the silverware -- yeah, Lobelia stole the spoons 60 years ago, but the utter panic about precious things being stolen...

While sad to think, I think the messiness was due to the madness from possessing the Ring. All this madness and messiness is very movie bound. I don't recall Bilbo being so obsessed in FotR book.



'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 5:01pm

Post #22 of 79 (781 views)
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When Thorin melts into the shadows after observing a gold-obsessed Thror from the distance.... [In reply to] Can't Post

reminded me of when Isuldur turns his back on Elrond at the Sammath Naur, after deciding to keep the one ring.

But this time, the roles are reversed, with Thorin being on the side of reason and Isuldur on the side of madness ...



Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Jan 1 2013, 5:11pm

Post #23 of 79 (759 views)
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Jacksy [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Ori says something about sticking something up Smaug's "Jackson"


Jacksy = English slang for bottom, backside, arse...



'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 5:24pm

Post #24 of 79 (687 views)
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He says Jacksy!? LOL!! That's even funnier, even though it still feels out of place to me.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 5:33pm

Post #25 of 79 (736 views)
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One of the Dwarves on the spit [In reply to] Can't Post

says something like" we're riddled with parasites"--was it Ori or Bofur?

Love this scene! The look on Bilbo's face...and the ponies have names (all I can remember now is Myrtle. Maybe Sally?)

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

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