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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rivendell Continuity
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Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 4:01pm

Post #51 of 76 (357 views)
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I am not very interested in the exact [In reply to] Can't Post

architectural layout of Rivendell, it seems a mysterious changeable place, but I do mind when they make it look so much more smaller and cramped in TH. It didnt quite feel like the same place to me. Although in FOTR the colour grading sometimes seemed to make use of a heavy orangey glow, I thought it was much more heavy in TH. Apart from the very end shot of Galadriel in the light, I didnt like the sickly pink at all.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:03pm

Post #52 of 76 (350 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

That shot is right after Frodo talks to Gandalf after he wakes up. It's this shot.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 4:27pm

Post #53 of 76 (350 views)
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i really don't get [In reply to] Can't Post

this continuing myth about Rivendell being less "cramped" or feeling more spacious in LotR. i would agree there are times that the space feels a tad too small in AUJ, especially the dinner scene. but that's just as much an issue in LotR. the very nature of Rivendell means that the filmmakers had to approach it with a lot of set-backdrop, set-backdrop in both movies. there are still some big sets in AUJ (like when they first arrive in Rivendell or the night interior where they are talking to Elrond about the map). and the backdrops and CG models now feel more expansive to me. that first shot of Rivendell from a distance is breathtaking. really, i think if it weren't for that brief dinner scene, this would not be something anyone would be bringing up...that is the ONLY scene i can see any argument for feeling more "cramped" than a lot of the LotR Rivendell scenes. it's difficult because they wanted the dinner to be taking place overlooking vistas but then you don't get to have many mid-ground elements breaking up the disparity between the two planes. i don't think the White Council scene suffers from this because of how it was shot and it taking place in the middle of that big veranda with all the pillars--also, the varying spatial placements of the actors helped give the scene more visual depth. they definitely had a much more effective approach there, which is good, because that's a much longer and more important scene than the dinner bit (which probably would have been relegated to the EE if this had been kept two movies).

as for this specific issue with the change in architecture, it's a 60 year difference and a different perspective in the shots (or maybe even different parts of Rivendell). it doesn't bother me that there are differences but if some of you want to dislike that it's not the same, that's your right.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 4:59pm

Post #54 of 76 (343 views)
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What do you mean by this: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
i would agree there are times that the space feels a tad too small in AUJ, especially the dinner scene. but that's just as much an issue in LotR.


Why is it small? Crazy

Did you want a field with a table in the middle?

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Dec 31 2012, 5:02pm)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 5:19pm

Post #55 of 76 (345 views)
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I would imagine so, with all that excercise. [In reply to] Can't Post

Keeps the pectoralis major in shape.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


YaznegSouth40
Rivendell

Dec 31 2012, 5:28pm

Post #56 of 76 (332 views)
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Perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

during the 60 years, Elrond and company decided to make some renovations to Rivendale. It is done pretty much everywhere in our real world...so maybe they wanted to convey that in the film and in Rivendale. You know some other differences about Rivendale which is not cosmetic but...Elrond seemed more warrior-like still along with the inhabitants... then in the LOTR where he seemed more removed from that type of carrying on and was just a wise elf giving out sound advice. No armor as well 60 years later. Remember when Elrond said that the elves time was up and his people were leaving..maybe that shows things had changed and would not be the same.


(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Dec 31 2012, 5:29pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 5:37pm

Post #57 of 76 (330 views)
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actually, no [In reply to] Can't Post

and i'm not sure what others would want, either, i'm just acknowledging that because Rivendell has to use a set-backdrop dynamic and they chose to have shots of the dinner where it's almost immediately the backdrop behind Elrond (there are shots like that in LotR, too, though), it does give you less visual depth. but this was the only time that was an issue for me. i guess the other option for the scene would have been to shoot Elrond with less of the backdrop behind him or with more of a close-up, but a close-up would have implied more intensity or emphasis on Elrond's words than the scene intended. if you shoot the scene where it's all set, no backdrop, then that doesn't necessarily leaven the feeling of "cramped" or whatever. no easy solutions but i think, again, they pulled it off well elsewhere and in the White Council scene, so it shows that it can be done if the scene is set up a certain way. i think the mise en scene for the dinner scene in Rivendell was just okay (and maybe the reading of the Moon Runes bit just slightly better) but was very strong for the rest of the Rivendell stuff.


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 5:37pm

Post #58 of 76 (316 views)
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Oh I know where it is in the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

 I mean physically where in Rivendell it's supposed to be and where the stuff in the background is compared to the other shots.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 5:52pm

Post #59 of 76 (312 views)
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Oh, that I could not tell you [In reply to] Can't Post

as I have no idea. But then, I don't have any idea where any of the "sets" fit into the Rivendell "geography."

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).

(This post was edited by Ardamírë on Dec 31 2012, 5:52pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 6:39pm

Post #60 of 76 (311 views)
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while some [In reply to] Can't Post

will continue to complain about non issues. trying to create issues that do not exist


Starling
Half-elven


Dec 31 2012, 9:43pm

Post #61 of 76 (317 views)
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And the magical Nazgul horse [In reply to] Can't Post

that appears from behind the tree. I always like that one. Cool


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 11:52pm

Post #62 of 76 (427 views)
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And Frodo's disappearing/reappearing nipple [In reply to] Can't Post

when he's in bed in Rivendell, with Sam holding his hand.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 11:54pm

Post #63 of 76 (279 views)
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Oooh, I forgot about the talking horse! [In reply to] Can't Post

That scene makes me giggle every time...who'da' thunk the Nazgul would be riding Mr. Ed?


sycorax82
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 12:58am

Post #64 of 76 (298 views)
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Maybe PJ could go all Lucas for the next release of LOTR? [In reply to] Can't Post

Changing Rivendell so it matches closer to AUJ? Heck knows, there are plenty of changes (some tiny, some huge) that I would love him to make to the original trilogy. Let's list some...

- Create a new cut that includes SOME scenes from the EE but not all...(I don't like the Frodo/Bilbo 'I'm selfish...' scene and a couple of others)

- Switch Ian Holm with Martin Freeman in the Prologue

- Change Gollum's design in FOTR to match his look from TTT onwards

- Make the horse just pant instead of saying 'Hi' xD

- Re-render the Cave Troll to bring it up to AUJ standards. Also, the Balrog, if possible.

- Somehow re-integrate the Moria orcs chasing the company into Lorien.

- Have Frodo see flashes of scenes from TTT and ROTK in the Mirror of Galadriel. Also, expand his vision from Amon Hen (Peter's original plan was for him to see armies, Easterlings, Haradrim and much more)

- Paste out Aragorn's re-appearing sword in the Lurtz fight.

- Stop the dead Uruk from starting to get up as Aragorn jumps over him.

Also a special note for a change that HAS to be made to TTT - paste Karl Urban back over his riding double in that hero shot towards the end of TTT. You see the double so clearly you're wondering who this new guy is on the end!! xD


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 1:05am

Post #65 of 76 (256 views)
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Personally .... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think any of these changes should be made. The ship has sailed. Just because there are new films, doesn't mean the older films should be changed.

Never do a Lucas. Tongue

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Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:08am

Post #66 of 76 (272 views)
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What is the talking horse!?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:09am

Post #67 of 76 (255 views)
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Well, I wouldn't have a problem with [In reply to] Can't Post

putting Karl's flipping face on that *shudders* other person...

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 1 2013, 1:12am

Post #68 of 76 (276 views)
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It's in the scene [In reply to] Can't Post

where the four hobbits are hiding under the bank from the Nazgul. The horse makes a deep vocalization that a lot of people hear as "Hi!". And once you hear it, it's hard to un-hear.

Silverlode






Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:27am

Post #69 of 76 (268 views)
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Oh good gracious [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be listening for that next time! Unimpressed

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 3:28am

Post #70 of 76 (260 views)
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I've never heard of this talking horse thing. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm putting the disc in right now!


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 3:44am

Post #71 of 76 (251 views)
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Thank God there is money involved... (in a positive way, this time). PJ, make those changes! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd love to see those changes.
In fact I won't buy any other version of LOTRHobbit until they fix all the bloopers/bad CGI/and so on. Now I'm fine with my EE DVDs.
So, if they want my money, and the money of tons of people who will "enter a store and see there's a new edition of LOTR/Hobbit available, I'm 100 per cent sure they'll make those changes.
And even if we all think of the crappy work Lucas has done with the original trilogy, I have absolutely no fear, because behind this there will be PJ, which is not Lucas.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 4:21am

Post #72 of 76 (257 views)
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Anyone who's seen Ridley Scott's Blade Runner: The Final Cut [In reply to] Can't Post

knows that this sort of thing can be done extraordinarily well. He did a fantastic job-- erasing visible cables on the flying cars (spinners), replacing an obvious stunt double's face with the original actor"s (she still looked the same!), fixing a bad line dub (using Harrison Ford's son!), replacing the cheap looking industrial background when Roy Batty releases the dove with a much more appropriate city skyline-- it made an almost perfect movie even more so. No bizarre additions, no changing character motivations, no rampant, out-of-place CGI. Just little touches here and there to get rid of a few of the distracting bits that always took me out of the movie.

Just because George Lucas did a horrible job on the original Star Wars trilogy (and even then some of the things he did were indeed improvements), doesn't mean that anyone else can't ever do it really well.

I'm not saying that PJ should go back and drastically alter LotR (i actually think the cave troll still looks good, and the Balrog is perfect just the way he is), but i wouldn't be against going back and doing a few touch ups here and there. And maybe bring things in line with The Hobbit where necessary. In fact, in one of Eric M. Van's articles here on TOR.n, he talks about PJ going back and doing an "Ultimate Edition" once The Hobbit is done, and re-editing some of the footage, mainly the early Hobbiton/Bag End footage, into one long, cohesive story. It's a very interesting idea, and i suggest going back and reading that article.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 7:55pm

Post #73 of 76 (214 views)
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I would like to [In reply to] Can't Post

 read it, how do you find it please?


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 9:51pm

Post #74 of 76 (206 views)
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I'll find them and post links. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's taking a little longer to find them than i thought, but i should have them up shortly. Now that i've seen the movie, i want to re-read them too!


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 10:52pm

Post #75 of 76 (209 views)
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Here you go... [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are the Eric M. Van articles i was talking about. They're called Imagining Peter Jackson's The Hobbit (written prior to AUJ's release), and they delve into how the book might translate to the screen, and how it will fit with the original trilogy. The "Ultimate Edition" is discussed in Pt. 2...

http://www.theonering.net/...the-hobbit-part-one/

http://www.theonering.net/...the-hobbit-part-two/

http://www.theonering.net/...ree/?fb_source=pubv1

And here's 4 more articles (also written before AUJ came out), this time by Thomas Monteath, discussing splitting The Hobbit into a trilogy and gleaning information from trailers and the like...

http://www.theonering.net/...of-a-hobbit-trilogy/

http://www.theonering.net/...y-predictable-break/

http://www.theonering.net/...aracter-biographies/

http://www.theonering.net/...-filling-the-blanks/

Enjoy!

P.S. Warning: Some of them are quite long!

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