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Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 18 2012, 10:20pm
Post #1 of 9
(1170 views)
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Hobbits,Orcs, and the Human Condition
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http://www.americanthinker.com/...human_condition.html
December 18, 2012
Hobbits,Orcs, and the Human Condition
By Glenn Fairman
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/hobbitsorcs_and_the_human_condition.html#ixzz2FRcsWAQt
"...Evil is not deemed co-equal with Good, as in a Manichean worldview, but as a corrupted end which once sought the Good. Such is vice and evil in our lives: love is denatured into lust, acquisition and thrift becomes greed and covetousness, and the desire to rule becomes the thirst for power and tyranny..."
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Entwife Wandlimb
Menegroth
Dec 31 2012, 9:39pm
Post #2 of 9
(620 views)
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Hope in the face of a manifold of wickedness
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Thanks for the link! While the title had me hoping to read more about orcs, I enjoyed reading his musings on why Tolkein's works resonate with his readers.
Despite the manifold vices and wickedness that entertain the human imagination, a joyous optimism is evident in the words of the Gospels, Tolkien, and Lewis. Therein we can take comfort in virtue, faith, and courage that the Dark Lord shall not stand. Obviously, the theme of hope in the face of horrific evil appeals to readers of all sorts of faiths, but I think it is something that shines brightly in this "age of reason" when so often our hopes are based on statistics. When the odds are against you, when the body count is higher than we can bear, reason would counsel one to despair, but the right sort of fairy tales tell us to hope and persevere.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 31 2012, 10:02pm
Post #3 of 9
(643 views)
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You sound like Gandalf at the Last Debate
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He warms them up with
Quote
...It cannot be doubted that when Denethor saw great forces arrayed against him in Mordor, and more still being gathered, he saw that which truly is...This war then is without final hope...and prudence would counsel you to strengthen such strong places as you have, and there await the onset.
The odds are against them, as you put it, and reason would counsel them to despair, but he follows up with:
I do not counsel prudence...I still hope for victory, but not by arms.
He's rejecting prudence/rational thinking and putting his faith in Frodo. And for one of the wisest of the Wise to do this, it's inspiring.
Did you have that passage in mind, or were you speaking more generally?
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Entwife Wandlimb
Menegroth
Jan 1 2013, 2:10am
Post #4 of 9
(636 views)
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I'm afraid you give me too much credit as I couldn't think of any specific examples, only I have read those passages again and again so I suppose they had seeped in to influence my perspective. So, thank you for that very good example of just what I think this story offers the modern reader that is hard to find elsewhere -- that there is wisdom in hope instead of cynicism, and in doing the right thing, regardless of the outcome.
I suppose there is just a small distinction between courage and fearlessness which we all must choose between each day, even in lives that appear to be more like those in the Shire than those in Gondor. We find this serious theme in action/adventure, as well as things as sweet as Finding Nemo deals with the same subject -- how do we cope with a lethal world, when our illusion of safety is shattered and we realize than any car ride, any good bye, might be our last? Do we choose to live in denial that any danger might befall us? Do we choose to live fearlessly, cynically resigned to our fate? Or, do we choose to live courageously, hoping that beauty and purpose will win out, despite the fickleness and wickedness of the world?
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Avanti
Registered User
Jan 9 2013, 10:12pm
Post #5 of 9
(596 views)
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all humans are either hobbits
men
elves
or orcs
it is not
their outer appearance
but
their inner
essence
i am an orc myself
and could not choose
to be
anything else
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Avanti
Registered User
Jan 9 2013, 10:32pm
Post #7 of 9
(611 views)
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i am
a criminal delinquent
i was recently banned
from another
tolkien forum
when i told
i had committed a few criminal acts
so i won't
rest on any details
of what i've done
on another note
i have never
held
a steady employment
either
i have drifted around
or lived
as a welfare leech
from age 12
i lived on the street
without a fixed address
until age 25
this current society
defines me
as a loser
but i'm a survivor
would the zombie apocalypse
arrive
i'll survive
for more weeks
than you ever will
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Jan 9 2013, 11:19pm
Post #9 of 9
(819 views)
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Do orcs have any choice in life? They do exhibit choices
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within the limits provided by their maker.
Tolkien stated:
"They were indeed so corrupted that they were pitiless, and there was no cruelty or wickedness that they would not commit; but this was the corruption of independent wills, and they took pleasure in their deeds. They were capable of acting on their own, doing evil deeds unbidden for their own sport; or if Morgoth and his agents were far away, they might neglect his commands."
url]http://randywilson.hubpages.com/hub/Everything-in-Life-is-a-Choice
"We are only held back from the things that we truly desire in life, by the choices we make on a daily basis. Most choose to make excuses and blame others for their poor results in life or in business and remain where they are right now, not realizing that if they would ask a few more questions about their previous choices, they might be able to propel themselves to exactly the amount of success they desire. Notice that making the excuses and blaming others is also a choice."
Zombies vs Orcs
http://www.historum.com/...-vs-mordor-orcs.html
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jan 9 2013, 11:23pm)
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