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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rivendell Continuity
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Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 2:29am

Post #26 of 76 (626 views)
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Is this shot in the TE but not EE. For some reason I don't remember it at all! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:36am

Post #27 of 76 (614 views)
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I think it's in both. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Dec 31 2012, 2:40am

Post #28 of 76 (620 views)
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(Humor) [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe the old and new buildings could disappear and reappear like Galadriel! :D

More likely, Elrond had to do a major redesign to Rivendell to keep Aragorn and Arwen separate. Wink

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


ceppault
Bree


Dec 31 2012, 2:42am

Post #29 of 76 (611 views)
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Sounds like a great question for Comic-Con [In reply to] Can't Post

Safe guess the crew will be in San Diego in July 2013. Wondering if that is already sold out.

Production Locations on Google Maps
The Hobbit
The Return of the King
The Two Towers
The Fellowship of the Ring


Randraug
The Shire


Dec 31 2012, 2:42am

Post #30 of 76 (624 views)
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...... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just figured we were looking at Rivendell from a different angle in The Hobbit lol

"There's nothing wrong with being a loser, it just depends on how good you are at it."
~BJA~



Jaymail
Registered User

Dec 31 2012, 2:44am

Post #31 of 76 (715 views)
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There has been some recognition from Weta that Rivendell does change [In reply to] Can't Post

There are various sources (some of which I cannot recall right now - perhaps on the EE extras) that discuss the shifting details of Rivendell and that being related to the mystery of The Hidden Valley.

In designing and developing the Environment Replica, here, Daniel Falconer discusses the challenges they faced:


Quote
The miniatures used in the production of the movies have been taken apart and reconstructed more than once in the course of filming, and the use of digital matt paintings complicates things a little further. Rivendell's layout, it seems, is not necessarily entirely consistent from scene to scene. Given Elven magic played a part in its founding, that is not surprising, nor inappropriate, but it poses a challenge for us as we seek to recreate it in earthly polystone! A certain degree of compromise has had to be found in order to replicate the Elven outpost so that it most closely matches the most iconic shots in the trilogy, but there's some ambiguity involved. We've had to reason that perhaps what we see over the shoulders of the Fellowship members in some shots represents some other parts of Imladris not discernible in the wide shots?

After careful deliberation and comparing all of the different sources, including film stills, the shooting miniatures, conceptual art and after discussions with designer Alan Lee, we have settled on creating a rendering of Rivendell that reflects what we see in the establishing wide shots.


In The Hobbit: AUJ Chronicles: Art & Design, Dan Hennah goes on to say:


Quote
The exact geography of Rivendell was never explicitly defined during The Lord of the Rings, but this times around we have established an area of Rivendell quite accurately, giving sets and digital work a common grounding. We approach it from a new angle, coming down a different face of the valley, so the entrance is totally new.



Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:50am

Post #32 of 76 (614 views)
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Aragorn & Arwen [In reply to] Can't Post

Well it doesn't seem to have worked! Look at the following evidence!

Incriminating shot #1!
And what's this!?
Errr... Crazy

Maybe he should have invested in a bloodhound.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:52am

Post #33 of 76 (625 views)
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That quote from Daniel Falconer [In reply to] Can't Post

is exactly what I was referring to. Thanks for digging it up!

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Dec 31 2012, 3:17am

Post #34 of 76 (598 views)
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Can't stop the tide, but Papa Elf has to try! :D [In reply to] Can't Post

I also think Elrond kept Narsil in shards for a reason. "As long as you are in my house, your blade stays blunt and your hilt stays in it's sheath!" Wink

"And windows! Windows and open doorways everywhere! Better yet -- arches! Nothing but arches! I want arches and elf-archers everywhere!"

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 3:20am

Post #35 of 76 (583 views)
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Haha, no he couldn't! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

When you read you begin with abc, when you sing you begin with do re mi.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:08am

Post #36 of 76 (580 views)
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It's actually the exact same shot then [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm getting confused about what, exactly, the concern is here. If we don't have the exact same shot for comparison (like we did here which turned out to be the same, only with different color grading), could the difference not be due to different perspectives of the set?

After all, the conceptual designers were the same (Alan Lee and John Howe). Why would they completely redesign Rivendell and, if they did, how can that be chalked up to laziness? There's got to be another explanation.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:22am

Post #37 of 76 (552 views)
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Wait, you're confusing me. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nevrast was asking where the original shot was from, because he didn't recognize it. It's this shot from Fellowship which is different from this shot from ROTK.

So Rivendell has never had a defined set area, as explained by Daniel Falconer in this post by Jaymail. And since it was never really defined, it doesn't really matter that it's different again in The Hobbit.

Did I straighten things out at all? Crazy

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:33am

Post #38 of 76 (564 views)
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Nope. We're on the same wavelength [In reply to] Can't Post

Be afraid, be very afraid. Wink


Quote

And since it was never really defined, it doesn't really matter that it's different again in The Hobbit.


That's the point I was trying to pick up on: it's an inconsistency throughout the movies, not just in the Hobbit; which makes it a moot point for those who want to chalk it up to one more reason to dislike AUJ.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:37am

Post #39 of 76 (558 views)
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Oh gosh! [In reply to] Can't Post

Angelic

Yes, we're completely agreed. No need for anyone to get in a tizzy over this particular inconsistency.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:45am

Post #40 of 76 (560 views)
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But, you were [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Of course, everyone here will continue to use humor to ignore any and all errors this movie makes, and avoid discussing issues seriously.


You were blaming The Hobbit for an inconsistency that's been prevalent throughout the movies. That's not your fault, of course, because thanks to our sleuths here, we all just found that out.


I feel for those who didn't like AUJ, I really do. But, accusing the people who liked it for not discussing things with as much seriousness as *you* think they should have isn't fair and also isn't the best way to further the 'serious' discussion you think should be happening. As I said before, there have been many serious discussions about the shortfallings of AUJ, as well as discussions about the good parts. This is how it should be on a discussion board. Those who liked the movies shouldn't get disheartened because not everyone liked it, just as those who didn't love it shouldn't despair that some people loved it and don't have the wherewithall to discuss 'serious' complaints.

We all have to live with each other, likers and dislikers, for the next 11 months. I really hope we can avoid casting blame on those who's opinions vary from our own. Otherwise it's going to be a very lo-o-o-o-ng 11 months!




Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 31 2012, 4:48am)


Starling
Half-elven


Dec 31 2012, 5:13am

Post #41 of 76 (588 views)
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Oh please don't [In reply to] Can't Post

It made my day! Sorry, Quacking Troll. Laugh


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2012, 6:04am

Post #42 of 76 (534 views)
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are you sure [In reply to] Can't Post

this isn't a different shot/location? i don't see the bridge in the AUJ shot, Rivendell is a pretty good size place it could be another angle/location.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!


Steerpike
Bree


Dec 31 2012, 6:06am

Post #43 of 76 (541 views)
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It's simple [In reply to] Can't Post

Rivendell is big. It stretches for miles up and down the valley. There are many entrances, many bridges, many halls, towers, balconies and catwalks. Each time we see it we're seeing a different part. There's no inconsistency at all.


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 6:10am

Post #44 of 76 (535 views)
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Decently consistent [In reply to] Can't Post

This two shots actually looks decently consistent the more I look at it except the rounded area where people are watching the Fellowship leave seems to be completely absent from from the ROTK shot.

This shot, however is super confusing to me. I have no idea where this is supposed to be.

http://laraandthereelboy.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/frodo-at-rivendell.jpg


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 9:16am

Post #45 of 76 (529 views)
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Actually, we have a long tradition [In reply to] Can't Post

of using humor to make the most out of any "errors" we find -- far be it from us to ignore them!

Anyone remember the car in FotR?

Or Aragorn's famous line "Legolas, get the map!" Which was utterly appropriate, given that in TTT, Legolas didn't know his East from West.

Or Aragorn's magically reappearing sword in his fight with Lurtz?

Or Eomer losing his sword when he mounts horse?

Or the piece of string on Gandalf's hand that vanishes and reappears several times in his interview with Saruman?

Or when the people reflected in the ring at the Council of Elrond are not in mirror image?

Or the right-handed vs. left-handed directions of the brooches on the Hobbit's cloaks?

Or the dead orc at Amon Hen that moves his arm?


Nothing wrong with analyzing these with humor..."It was just a bit of fun!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 10:18am

Post #46 of 76 (497 views)
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I noted this back in April [In reply to] Can't Post

Link

Smile

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DolGuldur
Registered User

Dec 31 2012, 10:45am

Post #47 of 76 (460 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

... for posting the link to the previous thread. I very much appreciate continuity and aesthetic consistency in films. It seems that the design of Rivendell was deliberately 'fluid' in the LOTR films. It stands to reason that this would also be the case across two trilogies.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 11:25am

Post #48 of 76 (492 views)
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Boromir's disappearing/reappearing hand.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Pippin's disappearing/reappearing bonds, the horse that says "hi!".....yep, good times. Cool

Silverlode






DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 11:34am

Post #49 of 76 (452 views)
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Thank you for bringing it up again! [In reply to] Can't Post

I had completely forgotten until today. It really bugged me back in April, and it still bugs me today.

Rivendell clearly has undergone a change. I'd love to know the (design) reason for it. For the meantime, I think the Elves re-building it in the 60 year time period is a good enough explanation.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 2:54pm

Post #50 of 76 (415 views)
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Once the DVDs are released [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure there will be intense scene-by-scene discussions, with a mixture of serious and humourous.

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