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Fellow
Registered User
Dec 30 2012, 12:17pm
Post #1 of 13
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I few things I can't remember
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Hi all,
Only seen it once, and it's such a sensory overload there's a few things i don't remember...Do you know the feeling after just one viewing?
1. Do we see Bilbo becoming aware of the invisibility when wearing the ring? When he watched Gollum in the 'Bilbo's pitty' scene, i thought to myself: Does he even know he is invisible? If so, when did he find out, was there a reaction shot or explanation that i have just totally missed??
2. They don't explain Azogs hunt, right? Whether he is just out for revenge, hired by Necro or whatever is still in the dark, or did I again miss something crucial?
3. The intro. First up the "my dear frodo" stuff, then the Erebor prolouge, then Bilbo starting the (semed a little forced to me) "in a hole in the ground...". Then at some point Frodo enters. That's how it plays out right? I am asking because i simply cannot make this connect logically to FOTR EE, with bilbo's "where to begin...ahh...concerning hobbits"...so maybe there is something I don't remember correctly? Basically: is My dear frodo or Concerning Hobbits the first sentence in his book????
Some of you probably know the film by heart now:-) So feel free to help my memory along....
Fellow
...Going on an adventure...
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irodino
Nevrast
Dec 30 2012, 12:44pm
Post #2 of 13
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Bilbo is clearly aware he's invisible - after all he's standing in front of Gollum who acts like he's not there :P He points the Sting at Gollum at point blank range, but Gollum can't see the sword 5cm away from his nose. I believe Bilbo looks around when he becomes invisible, a bit like Frodo did.
I don't think Azog is explained at all, but.. when Thorin says that Azog died, Gandalf and Balin look at each other at Weathertop, as if saying "we will have to tell him the truth eventually.. and he won't take it well". So they know Azog lives, but Thorin doesn't.
I think he only thinks the "My dear frodo" part, but the first thing he actually writes down is "In a hole in the ground..".
"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that terrible in-between."
(This post was edited by irodino on Dec 30 2012, 12:44pm)
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arithmancer
Hithlum
Dec 30 2012, 12:48pm
Post #3 of 13
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1) In the film, Bilbo is running from Gollum, he squeezes through a narrow opening in the caves and loses most of his waistcoat buttons, falls down into the cave beyond, and the ring slips onto his finger. Then Gollum runs through this same opening and looks around and completely fails to notice Bilbo, who is lying on the ground looking straight up at him. Gollum, having ascertained that Bilbo is not there, continues further along that cave, and Bilbo starts to follow him. This is how Bilbo is shown figuring out the Ring's power to make him invisible.
2) Thorin's backstory is reason enough for him to be after Thorin. But why he would decide this was the right time to get revenge after all these years, and why he would be seeking Thorin along the path the company is taking on their quest rather than in the Blue Mountains where it seems the Dwarves have settled, is not explained. My own sense is that the movie suggests there is a story here - since Gandalf and Thorin have a discussion, when the Wargs first show up, of whom Thorin may have told of his quest.
3) I take it that first sentence of his book is "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit." Some of Bilbo's other dialogue in the movie is explanation and reminiscence that he does not immediately write down.
And I had the same reaction, that I wanted to think about it a bit and then see the movie again because I seemed to be missing some things.
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ryouko
Menegroth
Dec 30 2012, 1:45pm
Post #4 of 13
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Perhaps he wasn't interested in going after Thorin. Maybe he thought the Blue Mountains were too far away to bother. But then he heard that Thorin was in the area and he became determined to get him "this time". Maybe we'll find out in the EE. Maybe we'll find out in the next films. Maybe we'll never know. It's really hard to say.
2) Thorin's backstory is reason enough for him to be after Thorin. But why he would decide this was the right time to get revenge after all these years, and why he would be seeking Thorin along the path the company is taking on their quest rather than in the Blue Mountains where it seems the Dwarves have settled, is not explained. My own sense is that the movie suggests there is a story here - since Gandalf and Thorin have a discussion, when the Wargs first show up, of whom Thorin may have told of his quest.
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arithmancer
Hithlum
Dec 30 2012, 2:22pm
Post #5 of 13
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Azog's scouting party spots the dwarves somewhere in the wilderness along the Great East Road between the Shire and Rivendell, an area it does not seem to me they should naturally be in. I thought orcs generally live in the mountains somewhere. I seem to recall that Gandalf also mentions their presence (in one of the White Council conversations) as an example of how things are not as they should be, along with Trolls coming down from the mountains, when Elrond speaks of the 400 years of peace. That this is not in fact an odd coincidence is further supported by the suggestion in the film that these orcs are looking for Thorin/his party specifically. My recollection of the dialogue is that the orc who finds them says something to the others along the lines of "We have found the dwarvish scum, tell the Master" (suggesting they were looking on "the Master's" orders, and for these specific dwarves).
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Mooseboy018
Hithlum
Dec 30 2012, 5:40pm
Post #6 of 13
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At this point I just assume that Bilbo went back in after his smoke break to write the title, which he hadn't even written yet, and he decided to possibly start with information about hobbits rather than dwarves. As some have suggested the pages may not have been bound yet, and he was still tinkering with how the book should begin (similar to Tolkien).
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morgul lord
Ossiriand
Dec 31 2012, 12:25am
Post #7 of 13
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"Frodo, the door! Sticklebats, where is that boy?"
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This is the part I can't understand.
In FOTR, after he writes "Concerning Hobbits", someone starts knocking at the door, and Bilbo says "Frodo, the door! Sticklebats, where is that boy?"
Then it cuts to Frodo in the Eastfarthing, waiting for Gandalf.
But in The Hobbit: AUJ, Frodo tells Bilbo exactly where he's going. So I guess this is a continuity error? Or is "Concerning Hobbits" actually written before the "My Dear Frodo" stuff?
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 31 2012, 1:08am
Post #8 of 13
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And he's in the middle of writing his book - that's enough to drive out any other thoughts.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Nira
Menegroth
Dec 31 2012, 1:56am
Post #9 of 13
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yeah, I wondered about that too.
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I just figured he got swept away in his writing and forgot.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?"
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ryouko
Menegroth
Dec 31 2012, 2:39am
Post #10 of 13
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But remember, Gandalf asked Thorin who he told about the trip, besides his kin. And he said no one. That doesn't mean that someone wasn't spying on him. Someone might have been keeping an eye and ear on him. Then once Thorin left the Blue Mountains, the spy sent word back. But, still, we have the question of why not go to the Blue Mountains to get him? Something had to keep Azog away from Blue Mountain. Too few soldiers on his end?
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 31 2012, 7:41am
Post #11 of 13
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If you look closely at invisible-Bilbo when Gollum first misses him
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you see what looks like confusion and realization on his face.
How clear is that whole sequence to new audience members, I wonder? It's never explained in words what the ring is!
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The Mitch King
Nargothrond
Dec 31 2012, 7:46am
Post #12 of 13
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I don't think Azog is explained at all, but.. when Thorin says that Azog died, Gandalf and Balin look at each other at Weathertop, as if saying "we will have to tell him the truth eventually.. and he won't take it well". So they know Azog lives, but Thorin doesn't.
I think really that the point was that it wasn't a for sure deal that Azog "died of his wounds a long time ago"...this doesn'd imply necessarily that they know he is still alive. Im sure we will see in the next film.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Dec 31 2012, 11:28pm
Post #13 of 13
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I think it might. I think Gandalf, in the film context, either
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knows something about Moria (certainly he knows what dwells there aside from orcs in the movie version of events) or from his visit to Dol Guldur, concerning Azog. And Balin must know something from Moria itself. Perhaps it is Balin who peers beyond the gate, though that would be strange in regards to him being the one to go back, if he witnessed first hand the Terror within.
I don't think Azog is explained at all, but.. when Thorin says that Azog died, Gandalf and Balin look at each other at Weathertop, as if saying "we will have to tell him the truth eventually.. and he won't take it well". So they know Azog lives, but Thorin doesn't.
I think really that the point was that it wasn't a for sure deal that Azog "died of his wounds a long time ago"...this doesn'd imply necessarily that they know he is still alive. Im sure we will see in the next film.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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