Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Men at the BoFA *possible spoilers*

The Mitch King
Rohan


Dec 30 2012, 4:55am

Post #1 of 16 (937 views)
Shortcut
Men at the BoFA *possible spoilers* Can't Post

I haven't read the book in about a year or so and I have a question regarding the men in the BoFA and their place in the battle. Any ideas of how many men there were and if there were any soldiers or something like that? I know that most likely a ton of the people were killed in the attack of Smaug, so what force and presence could they actually have in a large battle? Strong enough to be considered another army alongside the dwarves and elves? What do you guys think they will be like in TABA?


Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien


Dec 30 2012, 5:05am

Post #2 of 16 (441 views)
Shortcut
Angry mob [In reply to] Can't Post

I would imagine the Lake-men were soldiers in the same sense as the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep -- farmers and merchants who had taken up arms to defend their town. There were a few professional soldiers and town guards among them. Bard had been one of these. But mostly, the Lake-men were an angry mob that wanted revenge and/or payment from the Dwarves for stirring up the dragon.

In the movie, we'll probably see a few battalions of armored guards but also a lot of ordinary Lake-towners who are carrying pitchforks, tools, and weathered old weapons. Unless PJ doesn't want to repeat a visual similar to the Helm's Deep scenes.


Nira
Lorien


Dec 30 2012, 7:07am

Post #3 of 16 (412 views)
Shortcut
Bo5A by the numbers [In reply to] Can't Post

In The Hobbit it says there were "more than five hundred dwarves" with Dain and at least 1000 elven spearmen among an untold number of elves. Of course there were also the eagles, Beorn, Gandalf, Bilbo, and Thorin's 13 dwarves. Citing The Atlas of Middle Earth, the lotr wiki states there were also at least 200 men of Lake-town...and they were fighting against about "6000 Goblins, 40 Trolls and 500 Wargs allies."

I wish the numbers of elves and men were more specific. I only have The Hobbit and LOTR books on hand, so if anyone has other books with better or different numbers please revise those I gave.

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?"


Mahtion
Rivendell

Dec 30 2012, 7:18am

Post #4 of 16 (360 views)
Shortcut
How many elves? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Elves formed more of the army than the men and dwarves? I expected the men of Dale to form the most with the dwarves matching the Mirkwood Elves. I guess Dain couldn't lend many dwarves. Been a while since I read the Hobbit.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Dec 30 2012, 7:45am

Post #5 of 16 (362 views)
Shortcut
Just looked into more and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain only brought a bit over 500... a couple thousand of elves, 500 dwarves, a couple hundred of ramshackle men (they do have Gandalf, Beorn and eagles though) vs all the orcs of the north basically with Wargs and trolls and bats (maybe some inclusion of Sauron though I hope not)...I think PJ will keep numbers out of it and just show a massive amount of everyone though and getting the point across that there are lots more orcs than good guys


Nira
Lorien


Dec 30 2012, 8:32am

Post #6 of 16 (345 views)
Shortcut
of smaug and men [In reply to] Can't Post

I figured that many of the men were likely killed or fled during Smaug's final attack.

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?"


Anubis
Rivendell


Dec 30 2012, 12:18pm

Post #7 of 16 (263 views)
Shortcut
Interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

So there were no Erebor dwarves aside from Thorin´s company? We´ve already seen all the scenes featuring Erebor dwarves in the entire trilogy?Shocked


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Dec 30 2012, 8:00pm

Post #8 of 16 (151 views)
Shortcut
Laketown was not that large so the citizenry was probably several [In reply to] Can't Post

thousand at most. Having 200+ men at arms is about all that could be expected. Not sure how many survivors of Dale were absorbed into Laketown's population.

"Esgaroth appears to be a city-state, always independent of Dale, and a republic with no king (the only real republic shown in Middle-earth). The people had always elected from among the old and wise the Master of Lake-town and did "not [endure] the rule of mere fighting men."

So, more could have been called in from the surrounding countrside if time allowed.


The goblins/orcs are very dependent on their leadership and when they lose their commanders they panic. After all, they fight out of fear and punishment combined with anger rather than out of need, loyalty and defence of family & home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esgaroth


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 30 2012, 8:06pm)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Dec 30 2012, 8:34pm

Post #9 of 16 (144 views)
Shortcut
Erebor dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

We might get some more views of the Erebor dwarves but im pretty sure they are not in the BoFA.Unsure


patrickk
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 10:00pm

Post #10 of 16 (122 views)
Shortcut
Numbers will be more [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book the BoFA is a small affair in that the 13 dwarves can come out of Erebor and turn the battle. I suspect PJ will make it much bigger to match the LoR battles, and end the trilogy on a grand note. Then the role of the 13 dwarves will have to be adjusted and also the role of Beorn who will probably bring help along in the form of (lots of) animals.


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2012, 12:22am

Post #11 of 16 (104 views)
Shortcut
No Narnia like warrior rams and goats please.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Even swarms of bees would be damaging for his hives.

A very nice illustration of the later LOTR Battle of Dale that may be suggestive...

http://tolkiengateway.net/...e_units_vs._Rhun.jpg


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 31 2012, 12:25am)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 31 2012, 12:32am

Post #12 of 16 (97 views)
Shortcut
Agreed, don't want a lot of animals showing up at the battle [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I think that could fit for the siege of Dol Guldur. Radagast is probably going to play some part, so it wouldn't be too far fetched if he brought a small army of different creatures.


patrickk
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 6:00am

Post #13 of 16 (70 views)
Shortcut
You can't avoid animals in these battles [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry the animals are there already. Wargs to start with, and then Beorn is there in the shape of a bear and a key player so unless you really want to change the text you cannot avoid Beorn, and I suspect the eagles may make a return appearance. So I think your wish for an animal free BoFA is a lost cause.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Dec 31 2012, 7:36am

Post #14 of 16 (77 views)
Shortcut
Animals [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sorry the animals are there already. Wargs to start with, and then Beorn is there in the shape of a bear and a key player so unless you really want to change the text you cannot avoid Beorn, and I suspect the eagles may make a return appearance. So I think your wish for an animal free BoFA is a lost cause.


Animals will show up but only in the form of eagles, Beorn and wargs i suspect....unless beorn brings some of his bros..and bats but idk how they will be portrayed


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 10:22am

Post #15 of 16 (56 views)
Shortcut
I expect that Radagast will bring the Eagles [In reply to] Can't Post

Rather than any other animal. No doubt he'll have something to do with the Ravens as well.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2012, 2:43pm

Post #16 of 16 (66 views)
Shortcut
I did not say to exclude all animals, after all, horses are animals. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't want silly extra creatures that are not in the text showing up., Beorn with a hundred really mad goats.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.