Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Hobbits,Orcs, and the Human Condition


Dec 18 2012, 10:20pm

Post #1 of 9 (861 views)
Hobbits,Orcs, and the Human Condition Can't Post


December 18, 2012
Hobbits,Orcs, and the Human Condition
By Glenn Fairman

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/hobbitsorcs_and_the_human_condition.html#ixzz2FRcsWAQt

"...Evil is not deemed co-equal with Good, as in a Manichean worldview, but as a corrupted end which once sought the Good. Such is vice and evil in our lives: love is denatured into lust, acquisition and thrift becomes greed and covetousness, and the desire to rule becomes the thirst for power and tyranny..."

Entwife Wandlimb

Dec 31 2012, 9:39pm

Post #2 of 9 (307 views)
Hope in the face of a manifold of wickedness [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the link! While the title had me hoping to read more about orcs, I enjoyed reading his musings on why Tolkein's works resonate with his readers.

Despite the manifold vices and wickedness that entertain the human imagination, a joyous optimism is evident in the words of the Gospels, Tolkien, and Lewis. Therein we can take comfort in virtue, faith, and courage that the Dark Lord shall not stand.

Obviously, the theme of hope in the face of horrific evil appeals to readers of all sorts of faiths, but I think it is something that shines brightly in this "age of reason" when so often our hopes are based on statistics. When the odds are against you, when the body count is higher than we can bear, reason would counsel one to despair, but the right sort of fairy tales tell us to hope and persevere.


Dec 31 2012, 10:02pm

Post #3 of 9 (322 views)
You sound like Gandalf at the Last Debate [In reply to] Can't Post

He warms them up with
...It cannot be doubted that when Denethor saw great forces arrayed against him in Mordor, and more still being gathered, he saw that which truly is...This war then is without final hope...and prudence would counsel you to strengthen such strong places as you have, and there await the onset.

The odds are against them, as you put it, and reason would counsel them to despair, but he follows up with:

I do not counsel prudence...I still hope for victory, but not by arms.

He's rejecting prudence/rational thinking and putting his faith in Frodo. And for one of the wisest of the Wise to do this, it's inspiring.

Did you have that passage in mind, or were you speaking more generally?

Entwife Wandlimb

Jan 1 2013, 2:10am

Post #4 of 9 (315 views)
Courage v. Fearlessness [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm afraid you give me too much credit as I couldn't think of any specific examples, only I have read those passages again and again so I suppose they had seeped in to influence my perspective. So, thank you for that very good example of just what I think this story offers the modern reader that is hard to find elsewhere -- that there is wisdom in hope instead of cynicism, and in doing the right thing, regardless of the outcome.

I suppose there is just a small distinction between courage and fearlessness which we all must choose between each day, even in lives that appear to be more like those in the Shire than those in Gondor. We find this serious theme in action/adventure, as well as things as sweet as Finding Nemo deals with the same subject -- how do we cope with a lethal world, when our illusion of safety is shattered and we realize than any car ride, any good bye, might be our last? Do we choose to live in denial that any danger might befall us? Do we choose to live fearlessly, cynically resigned to our fate? Or, do we choose to live courageously, hoping that beauty and purpose will win out, despite the fickleness and wickedness of the world?

Registered User

Jan 9 2013, 10:12pm

Post #5 of 9 (280 views)
human essence [In reply to] Can't Post

all humans are either hobbits



or orcs

it is not

their outer appearance


their inner


i am an orc myself

and could not choose

to be

anything else


Jan 9 2013, 10:16pm

Post #6 of 9 (284 views)
Please explain your Orcishness [In reply to] Can't Post


Registered User

Jan 9 2013, 10:32pm

Post #7 of 9 (296 views)
why? [In reply to] Can't Post

i am

a criminal delinquent

i was recently banned

from another

tolkien forum

when i told

i had committed a few criminal acts

so i won't

rest on any details

of what i've done

on another note

i have never


a steady employment


i have drifted around

or lived

as a welfare leech

from age 12

i lived on the street

without a fixed address

until age 25

this current society

defines me

as a loser

but i'm a survivor

would the zombie apocalypse


i'll survive

for more weeks

than you ever will


Jan 9 2013, 10:57pm

Post #8 of 9 (283 views)
Hmm, an orc with internet access. [In reply to] Can't Post



Jan 9 2013, 11:19pm

Post #9 of 9 (492 views)
Do orcs have any choice in life? They do exhibit choices [In reply to] Can't Post

within the limits provided by their maker.

Tolkien stated:

"They were indeed so corrupted that they were pitiless, and there was no cruelty or wickedness that they would not commit; but this was the corruption of independent wills, and they took pleasure in their deeds. They were capable of acting on their own, doing evil deeds unbidden for their own sport; or if Morgoth and his agents were far away, they might neglect his commands."


"We are only held back from the things that we truly desire in life, by the choices we make on a daily basis. Most choose to make excuses and blame others for their poor results in life or in business and remain where they are right now, not realizing that if they would ask a few more questions about their previous choices, they might be able to propel themselves to exactly the amount of success they desire. Notice that making the excuses and blaming others is also a choice."

Zombies vs Orcs

(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jan 9 2013, 11:23pm)


Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.