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Saelind
Menegroth
Nov 18 2007, 4:45pm
Post #1 of 26
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Chapter 4 A Short Cut to Mushrooms VII
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After supper, Maggot and his sons get the wagon ready. Maggot’s wife tells him to be careful. “’Don’t go arguing with any foreigners, and come straight back!’” Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
“There was now no breath of wind stirring; the night was still and quiet, and a chill was in the air. They went without lights and took it slow. Thin strands of river-mist were hanging above the dikes, and crawling over the fields.” A bit creepy isn’t it? Tolkien likes to use fog to lend atmosphere doesn’t he?
They come to the Ferry. “They were just beginning to scramble out, when suddenly they heard what they had all been dreading: hoofs on the road ahead. The sound was coming towards them… The fall of the hoofs sounded loud in the still, foggy air… The advancing hoofs stopped short. They thought they could dimly guess a dark cloaked shape in the mist, a yard or two ahead. ‘Now then!’ said the farmer throwing the reins to Sam and striding forward. ‘Don’t you come a step nearer! What do you want and where are you going?’ ‘I want Mr. Baggins. Have you seen him?’ said a muffled voice-but the voice was the voice of Merry Brandybuck. A dark lantern was uncovered, and its light fell on the astonished face of the farmer.” Whew! Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it?
“’Mr. Merry!’ he cried.”
“’Yes, of course! Who did you think it was?’” said Merry coming forward. As he came out of the mist and there fears subsided, he seemed suddenly to diminish to ordinary hobbit-size. He was riding a pony, and a scarf was swathed round his neck and over his chin to keep out the fog.” Ever had a similar experience?
Having delivered his passengers, Maggot prepares to depart since “’Mrs. Maggot will be worriting with the night getting thick.’” Interesting word choice with “worriting”.
“’Well, good night to you all,’ he said. ‘It’s been a queer day, and no mistake. But all’s well as ends well; though perhaps we should not say that until we reach our own doors. I’ll not deny that I’ll be glade now when I do.’” Maggot then gives Frodo a parting gift, a full basket of mushrooms. A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say?
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Nerdanel
Ossiriand
Nov 18 2007, 11:02pm
Post #2 of 26
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Well, you've cheated a little by editing the "clip-clop"s out of the account of Merry's approach, which sounds a whole lot scarier without it. This little passage reminds us that we are reading a sequel to The Hobbit, which was a children's book. JRRT persuades us pretty well that the hobbits are frightened by the approaching equestrian while using clip-clops to reassure the reader. Mrs Maggot's warning not to argue with foreigners is a bit similar--it both reminds us that danger is still near and views it from a place of safety.
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Morwen
Nargothrond
Nov 19 2007, 2:11am
Post #3 of 26
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Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
He may have had run-ins with trespassing strangers. He did mention "queer folk' in the area.
A bit creepy isn’t it? Tolkien likes to use fog to lend atmosphere doesn’t he?
Well, what's spookier than a dark and foggy night? I hate to drive in the fog, and I don't particularly care to walk in it, especially at night.
Whew! Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it?
I suspect that was intentional on Tolkiens part, and on my first reading I'm sure I fell for it.
Ever had a similar experience?
Fortunately not.
Interesting word choice with “worriting”
I'm not sure if that's a real word or if Maggot simply mispronounce "worrying", but I like that he respected Mrs. Maggot's feelings.
A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say?
Definitely. Mushrooms are a considerable improvment over torture and death.
Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you; you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out.
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 19 2007, 3:12am
Post #4 of 26
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I would say that Mrs. Maggot began "worriting" when Maggot mentioned taking the three to the Ferry. To "worrit" is actually listed in Webster's 1913 dictionary: "v. t. to worry; to annoy. [illiterate]". A genuine colloquialism!
It sounds like Maggot likes to hold his own against "foreigners", getting into long-lasting arguments; Mrs. Maggot wants him home, and as soon as can be.
River-mist "hanging" and "crawling" - it feels like Halloween spookiness! And why is Merry travelling with his lamp covered? I can understand Maggot wanting to be unseen, and he knows that without light he'll have to take it slow; but Merry seems to be going at a normal pace, which I should think would be dangerous without something to light the way.
That's one of the best chapter endings: the Maggots have given Frodo not only a parting gift, but a peace offering as well! They are both shrewd, and wise.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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a.s.
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 3:20am
Post #5 of 26
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a-worriting about foreigners and all
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Interesting word choice with “worriting”.
I looked up "worrit" in the OED, and note it is defined as "colloq":
1. trans. To worry, distress, vex, pester.
1818 LAMB Let. to Mrs. Wordsworth 18 Feb., These pests worrit me at business. 1837 DICKENS Pickw. xxvi, ‘Don't worrit your poor mother,’ said Mrs. Sanders. 1848 THACKERAY Van. Fair lviii, Lord bless us, how she did use to worret us at Sunday-school. 1854 W. COLLINS Hide & Seek II. xiv. (1904) 313 Why worrit yourself about finding Arthur Carr at all? 1869 J. R. GREEN Lett. (1901) III. 235, I have been worriting myself these last days with those Welsh chaps and our early history.
b. with advb. extension.
1854 W. COLLINS Hide & Seek II. x. (1904) 259 It don't do me no good: it only worrits me into a perspiration. 1855 TROLLOPE Warden viii. 116 Sir Abraham won't get papa another income when he has been worreted out of the hospital. 1871 GEO. ELIOT Middlem. xxvi. II. 66 It will worret you to death, Lucy; that I can see.
2. intr. To give way to worry; to experience or display mental disquietude, impatience, etc.
1854 W. COLLINS Hide & Seek II. xiv. (1904) 317 It was how to track the man as was Mary's death, that I puzzled and worrited about in my head, at that time. 1857 KINGSLEY Two Y. Ago viii. (1881) 127 He..snaps, and worrits, and won't speak to her sometimes for a whole morning. 1868 G. J. WHYTE-MELVILLE White Rose vii, ‘Look alive, girl! Comebustle, bustle! It's gone six o'clock.’ ‘Why, father, how you keep on worriting!’
Hence worriting vbl. n. and ppl. a.
1857 DICKENS Dorrit I. xxiii, There would be none of this *worriting and wearing.
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1845 G. E. JEWSBURY Zoe I. 33 [He] is just the naughtiest and most *worritting boy I ever saw. 1861 HUGHES Tom Brown at Oxf. I. xi. 194 Here and there some..worriting, energizing mortal..gets command of a boat. 1871 SMILES Character viii. 219 Worreting, petty, and self-tormenting cares.
It just sounds like a country accent to me. It gives me a sense these are country folk.
Maggot’s wife tells him to be careful. “’Don’t go arguing with any foreigners, and come straight back!’” Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
I think Maggot must have come in and told his wife about what happened today, and she is worried about him but using the "shorthand" of many long-married folk to tell him so in a bossy wife manner!
Here's what he says about today's visitor:
"There are some funny things going on today...we do get queer folk wandering in these parts at times...but this fellow was the most outlandish I have ever set eyes on....I have never heard of any like this black fellow."
And then commences to argue with him and tell him he'll set his dogs on him if he's not careful (which appears to be bluster, since the dogs have run off with tails between legs).
So...Maggot may have seen some "queer folk" pass his way before, but I bet the only one who has truly upset both him and his wife are today's visitor.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 3:22am
Post #6 of 26
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You must have been posting your dictionary reference while I was looking mine up.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Nov 19 2007, 3:24am
Post #7 of 26
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Need a place to do your worriting?
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I was looking up definitions at the same time as a.s. and dernwyn and found this website.
Where's Frodo?
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 6:04am
Post #8 of 26
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to the DSL (Dictionary of the Scots Language) for counsel... for it will say many things to worrit the #@!! out of you.
I'll take the definitions both of you have provided instead! =)
************************************
Putting the 'action' in action figure...
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2007, 4:06pm
Post #9 of 26
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Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
Bombadil comes to mind. I'd wager when those two talk politics or wives it turns into an all nighter.
A bit creepy isn’t it? Tolkien likes to use fog to lend atmosphere doesn’t he?
It seems to be a common cultural motif since Beowulf: Fog on the Moors, at Sea, in the Dell, on the Road, wherever. Things are hidden just a few feet away. You can run into trouble in an instant And if you run away you'll inevitably run in circles and end up right where you started back in the company of what sppoked you.
Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it?
Yeah, sounds are also muffled in fog.
Ever had a similar experience?
Well, I had my first real kiss on a very foggy night after seeing a young lady safely home to her doorstep. In the resultant daze I accidentally leaned against the doorbell which woke up the dogs, the folks, half the livestock, and so I had to leave rather ignominously.
Interesting word choice with “worriting”.
Yeah, is she worried or annoyed? Probabaly both. I'd suppose with Maggot's occasional wanderings into The Old Forest he's used to getting an earful from a "worrited" woman when he comes home a bit later than he should. I wonder what Goldberry does when she's "worrited"?
A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say?
Yeah, but not as full as the hobbits are going to be.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 19 2007, 4:10pm
Post #10 of 26
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Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
Yes.
A bit creepy isn’t it?
Yes.
Tolkien likes to use fog to lend atmosphere doesn’t he?
I think he uses fog for much more than lending atmosphere. I believe the fog is the hobbits' friend, both here, the next morning, and much later on the Anduin. And I think it is sent to help them by the Higher Powers.
Whew! Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it?
Yes.
Ever had a similar experience?
Not really, no.
A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say?
Well, it hasn't ended yet. They will see from the ferry that the Black Rider is still out there, and just missed them. But even if the Black Rider is still along, why wouldn't he stake out the ferry as he staked out the ford, much later on? Especially at night, when he is at his strongest? Well, he is not familiar with this area, and might not know about the ferry. But I also think the fog may have had something to do with it. The Black Riders fear water, and I think they also may fear the river spirits, who serve Ulmo.
Also note that in the appendices to LotR we learn that Eorl the Young, on his way to rescue Gondor, was protected from a black shadow, eminating from the direction of Dol Guldur, by a white mist, eminating from the direction of Lothlorien, but also from the direction of the nearby Anduin. Sound familiar?
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2007, 4:22pm
Post #11 of 26
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And why is Merry travelling with his lamp covered?
Light reflects off the fog. If you travel with too bright a light it will bounce back and blind you. That's why cars have foglights.
But Tolkien calls it a "dark lantern", a burglar's tool, which lends credence (though not much) to Peter Jackson's "rascalization" of Merry.
"Here’s your crowbar and your centrebit,
Your life-preserver – you may want to hit!
Your silent matches, your dark lantern seize,
Take your file and your skeletonic keys."
-W. S. Gilbert
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 19 2007, 4:42pm
Post #12 of 26
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Dark lanterns just had a shutter
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that could be drawn across the light. The lantern was also directional when the shutter was open, rather than shedding light in all directions. In other words, it functioned much like a modern flashlight.
Like flashlights, such lanterns were undoubtedly used by thieves, or secret societies, or police, but they were quite common among ordinary, innocent people as well. For one thing, it is nice not to be blinded by your own lantern. And I think Merry may have shuttered it because of the fog, as you suggest.
By the way, it also seems that there is some debate about the usefulness of fog lights.
(This post was edited by Curious on Nov 19 2007, 4:49pm)
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2007, 4:51pm
Post #13 of 26
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By the way, it also seems that there is some debate about the usefulness of fog lights.
I do know from experience that using "brights" while driving in fog is a very bad idea.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 19 2007, 5:22pm
Post #14 of 26
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The debate is not over fog lights as such, but over the usefulness of yellow fog lights vs. white fog lights. You are correct that fog lights are aimed and mounted low to reduce glareback, and the usefulness of that technique is not a subject of debate.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 5:49pm
Post #15 of 26
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It's not quite from my own dialect, but it's sort of on the edge of it, in my "passive vocabulary" as you might say, and I don't think you can use the word the way you do. "Worrited" doesn't work quite the same way as "worried", because what it really means is "nag and fuss because you're worried". Farmer Maggot might have been "worrited" to death by Mrs. Maggot, if she nagged him about going out in the dark, but she isn't "worrited", she's "worriting". If you take my meaning...
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 6:02pm
Post #16 of 26
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Hum, do you think Maggot has argued with outsiders before?
Yes indeed, that very afternoon!
Whew! Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it?
There's nothing like an active imagination to make things really scary!
Ever had a similar experience?
I remember having a very nasty experience driving in fog last Christmas, on a narrow road crossing the Pennines to visit family in England. We really had no choice but to keep going, although we could only just make out the centre line a few yards ahead, and cars parked on the verge occasionally loomed up beside us, so that we had to swerve to avoid them. We thought we were in for a horrible few hours up there in the dark, when suddenly we drove out of the fog as if a veil had lifted, and we were under a clear starry sky! A very LotR experience, because it also reminded me of the way the fog lifts so suddenly in Three's Company.
Interesting word choice with “worriting”.
Yes, a nice dialect word that's a bit more active and colourful than "worrying" (I said a bit more about it in response to Darkstone's post). I suppose Sam was "worriting" a bit when he made Frodo get down and hide in the bottom of the cart.
A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say?
Yes, a nice laugh to break the tension, and leave us (and the hobbits) relieved to be safely on the way to rest and respite.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2007, 6:09pm
Post #17 of 26
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‘Yes what?’ said the inexorable Wegg: ‘I won’t take yes. I’ll have it out of you in full, Boffin.’
‘Dear me!’ cried that unfortunate gentleman. ‘I am so worrited! I ask to be allowed to come to terms, supposing your document is all correct.’
‘Don’t you be afraid of that,’ said Silas, poking his head at him. ‘You shall be satisfied by seeing it. Mr Venus will show it you, and I’ll hold you the while. Then you want to know what the terms are. Is that about the sum and substance of it? Will you or won’t you answer, Boffin?’ For he had paused a moment.
‘Dear me!’ cried that unfortunate gentleman again, ‘I am worrited to that degree that I’m almost off my head. You hurry me so. Be so good as name the terms, Wegg.’
-Our Mutual Friend, by Charles Dickens, Chapter 3
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 19 2007, 6:19pm
Post #18 of 26
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Either I have to claim that Dickens doesn't know what it means, or give up.
I give up.
(Although I think you might agree that in your quote it does mean "fussed and bothered", which is what Mrs. Maggot does to her husband, so the meaning's somewhere in the middle of the way we each used it.)
Thanks Darkstone!
(I just saw your response after calling you on something else further down the board! I suppose you'll get me again... oh well...)
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
(This post was edited by FarFromHome on Nov 19 2007, 6:20pm)
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Nov 20 2007, 12:40am
Post #19 of 26
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This is one of my favorite scenes early in the book, before the hobbits leave the Shire. They think they're about to encounter Black Riders, but instead it's their friends!
Tolkien's writing is very atmospheric, and inanimate things do indeed make seem to act consciously to set the scene. In fact, I don't think they're inanimate; how many Maiar are in Middle Earth, embodying the mists and the clouds?
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 22 2007, 12:07am
Post #20 of 26
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"Clip-clop" and "Clop-clop" here.
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Later, the footfall of Glorfindel's approaching horse will be described as clippety-clippely-clip. Is there further equestrian onomatopoeia elsewhere in the book?
Mrs. Maggot's warning not to argue with foreigners is a bit similar--it both reminds us that danger is still near and views it from a place of safety. Last time through this chapter, we couldn't figure out why Mrs. Maggot's advice:
'You be careful of yourself, Maggot! ... 'Don't go arguing with any foreigners, and come straight back!' so closely paralleled Rosie's later words to Sam:
'Go on now! But take care of yourself, and come straight back as soon as you have settled the ruffians!' Can anyone solve that puzzle now?
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Join us Nov. 19-25 for "A Conspiracy Unmasked".
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 22 2007, 12:13am
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 22 2007, 12:17am
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Also note that in the appendices to LotR ... Eorl the Young ... was protected ... by a white mist, eminating from the direction of Lothlórien, but also from the direction of the nearby Anduin. That's in Unfinished Tales, actually.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 22 2007, 12:33am
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"The Homecoming of Frodo, Drogo's Son."
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It's a stretch, but the night scene, with more descriptions of sound than sight (hmm... must compare to the Moria chapters) and Frodo lying in the waggon bed, might suggest Tolkien's radio-drama, The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, Beorhthelm's Son, in which the earl's body is carted home from the Battle of Maldon.
Did anyone else think that this part, "Beside him Pippin was nodding towards sleep; but Sam was staring forwards into the rising fog" (emphasis added, of course), suggested something else in FotR?
It's interesting that Merry pulls the same trick that Gandalf and Aragorn sometime do: "As he came out of the mist and their fears subsided, he seemed suddenly to diminish to ordinary hobbit-size" (emphasis mine).
Whew! Sounded like things were going to get a bit sticky there for a moment didn’t it? Some readers find this trick ending to be a cheap joke -- anyone here feel that way?
A nice ending to a rather full day wouldn’t you say? Yes, "A Shortcut to Mushrooms" ends with mushrooms.
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 22 2007, 2:02am
Post #24 of 26
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Last time through this chapter, we couldn't figure out why Mrs. Maggot's advice:
'You be careful of yourself, Maggot! ... 'Don't go arguing with any foreigners, and come straight back!' so closely paralleled Rosie's later words to Sam: 'Go on now! But take care of yourself, and come straight back as soon as you have settled the ruffians!' Can anyone solve that puzzle now?
"'Have fun storming the castle!'" It's not exactly like, but it's similar humor.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Nov 22 2007, 8:39am
Post #25 of 26
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And I let Darkstone's erudition get the better of me! When I stopped to read the passage carefully, I found it supported my argument (that "worrited" means "bothered and nagged by other people", as opposed to just plain "worried"). But by then I'd let him have the point!
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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