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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
There And Back Again: how is this going to work?


Dec 13 2012, 5:27pm

Post #1 of 17 (955 views)
There And Back Again: how is this going to work? Can't Post

If, as we all seem to believe, Smaug dies at the end of this film, how in the world is TABA going to fill an entire movie? The Arkenstone and Battle of 5 Armies cannot make up 2+ hours. While DOS sounds like it will be terrific, I'm really puzzled about TABA. Thoughts?

Crunchable Birdses

Dec 13 2012, 5:31pm

Post #2 of 17 (570 views)
Smaug will die in TABA [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a lot to cover in TDOS without getting to the smaug rampage.

Also, lots of Dol Guldur stuff will be added to TDOS.

* crunch *


Dec 13 2012, 5:33pm

Post #3 of 17 (557 views)
Perhaps TDOS will end... [In reply to] Can't Post

... as Smaug is ravaging Lake Town?


Dec 13 2012, 5:34pm

Post #4 of 17 (497 views)
I agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

but this theory based on Smaug will die in DoS and I'm sure he will.

is the Necromancer plot can fill this in TABA?


Dec 13 2012, 5:36pm

Post #5 of 17 (516 views)
Bridge movie? [In reply to] Can't Post

I still think that Pete, Fran and Philipa are going to try to tie this to LOTR, how, I have no idea.

The Battle Of The Five Armies, they should give it at least 30 minutes, this is a massive battle, possibly bigger than Pelennor Fields.

The Shire

Dec 13 2012, 5:37pm

Post #6 of 17 (516 views)
The "middle film" in a trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post

Is always the best anyway. No need to do introductions, no need to do endings.

I guess the 3rd movie will feature both the failed "Hunt for Sauron", from Dol Guldur to the Black Gate, then Gandalf heading North in a hurry (transported by an eagle? It's a long way from Mordor to Erebor) because he gets worrying news of an imminent war between pretty much all races and creatures ... with Bilbo in the mix.

Then, you get the build up to the battle. TTT lived mostly from this "build up" tension and I can only guess the 5 armies will "dwarf" (pun intended) both Helm's Deep and even Pellenor Fields.


Dec 13 2012, 5:39pm

Post #7 of 17 (487 views)
Anyone want to guess if Bilbo... [In reply to] Can't Post

... will spend the battle unconscious, as in the book?


Dec 13 2012, 5:39pm

Post #8 of 17 (478 views)
well... [In reply to] Can't Post

if youre worrying about this now, then youll never be happy!

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Dec 13 2012, 5:42pm

Post #9 of 17 (484 views)
Film 2 will end with Smaug leaving Lonely Mountain, Dol Guldor will be it's climax // [In reply to] Can't Post



Dec 13 2012, 5:46pm

Post #10 of 17 (485 views)
It's already tied in with LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

With the Ring, Old Bilbo, Rivendell etc ...

No need for anything else.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!


Dec 13 2012, 5:49pm

Post #11 of 17 (431 views)
Nonsense! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be happy no matter what. I'm just having a hard time seeing where this is going for films 2 and 3.


Dec 13 2012, 6:11pm

Post #12 of 17 (387 views)
My guess [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think Smaug will die in the second film. The climax should be the purging of Dol Guldur and Sauron's escape to Mordor, with Bilbo and the dwarves starting with Beorn, spending much of their time in Mirkwood, their arrival in Esgaroth and Bilbo's exchange with Smaug. The cliffhanger should probably be the attack in Dale, which will likely be extended with some sort of resistance.

Smaug probably dies in the first act of There and Back Again, the second being the actual battle, and the third and last, the aftermath and Bilbo's return to the Shire.

What left me wondering the most is what Boyens hinted about recycling unused plots from LotR and the character Tauriel. If I were to guess, we won't be seeing the last of those Dol Guldur wights. I wonder if they will somehow attempt to include a barrow downs passage before they reach Beorn, with Gandalf leaving earlier to Dol Guldur. Beorn would rescue them and bring them to safety of his home like Tom Bombadil.
Later on, it will be Tauriel who will rescue the dwarves from the spiders, instead of Bilbo, perhaps using Glorfindel's devices and contrasting to Arwen?

All very intriguing, but now I notice how the dwarves end up being far more helpless than the Fellowship ever was, even in greater number.


Dec 13 2012, 6:25pm

Post #13 of 17 (393 views)
Smaug dies at the end of DOS [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I am in the minority here, but I honestly think Smaug dies at the end of DOS. Fierce battle between the men of Dale and Smaug, then the famous arrow shot. Last scene with Men proclaiming their desire to seek compensation of the Dwarves.

If TABA is suppose to serve as a bridge film to FOTR, then Sauron/Necromencer needs to be resolved in the third film, and not the 2nd. I say Dol Guldur will occur at the beginning of TABA, then Gandalf joins the Battle of the Five Armies during the middle of the film. I can just envision the one of the last scenes in TABA to be the opening of the Eye in Mordor.


Dec 13 2012, 6:56pm

Post #14 of 17 (339 views)
That would be odd [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't Sauron waking up in Mordor diminish the victory of the White Council instead of bringing closure to that subplot? They must believe Sauron is gone for the moment, and so should the audience. We have an epilogue in FoTR to pick us up from there. No one knows anything about the ring yet, since Gandalf's suspicions are adressed only after Bilbo's disappearance.

Also, I think it's unlikely PJ would give the Hobbit trilogy a bitter end. There's already enough sadness in the fate of Thorin and the outcome of the battle. If they wrap the Dol Guldur subplot in the second film, then they can focus on the victories and woes as they were presented originally. Enough foreshadowing will have been done, and TABA can perfectly stand on its own without more prequel stuff.

(This post was edited by RalphDamiani on Dec 13 2012, 7:00pm)

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Dec 13 2012, 7:35pm

Post #15 of 17 (301 views)
I would also guess Smaug will survive DOS [In reply to] Can't Post


Registered User

Dec 13 2012, 10:44pm

Post #16 of 17 (194 views)
films two and three [In reply to] Can't Post

Has anyone seen any hints from PJ telling what the second two films might cover? If they're adding some Sauron-related story throughout then I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be enough material for DOS without killing Smaug - and let's face it, he is the main villain of this tale, so killing him too early would be weird and give the final part much less impact. There's enough of a bridge between these films and LOTR with the returning characters, the theme of the Ring and the threat in Southern Mirkwood (Sauron) without having to try and add more 'bridging' stuff.

Valandil ed Imladris

Dec 14 2012, 9:19pm

Post #17 of 17 (128 views)
PJ said in an interview [In reply to] Can't Post

that the white council is going to kick some ass in the next movie. Sounds to me as if they will put the rest of the Dol Guldur plot in the second film.


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