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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So, do you think the first part of the movie drags?
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waaimasjien
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 4:16pm

Post #26 of 46 (254 views)
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I study film too... [In reply to] Can't Post

and I do think the humanities are in fact part of what we call 'science'. Wink Although there is of course no rule or hard evidence on how a film should be edited to achieve the intended effect on an audience.

I don't think you can discuss pacing of a single movie in the context of later sequels though. Of course it's one story, but these are three distinct films. Hence the way you're discussing the beginning of DOS as a beginning. The problem with the pacing in AUJ is that in that first hour the same point is made over and over again. The dwarves are hysterical (all in their own individual way, of course) and Thorin really wants his homeland back. We get it. It's just too much of the same thing at the same time. You can do world- and character building throughout the film instead of cramming it all into one sequence (because, let's face it, most of the dwarves are established here, but have virtually nothing the do in the rest of the film).


Artemis Roach
Bree


Dec 13 2012, 4:26pm

Post #27 of 46 (263 views)
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Condescending twaddle [In reply to] Can't Post


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In the end it's entirely subjective, but I think most people who have seen their share of films or have studied it will agree with me.


In the beginning too, it's entirely subjective, most people who have seen their share of ADD and/or have studied and recognize short attention spans completely agree with you.


Quote
I study film too...


That's why I defer to an expert. I've been schooled!


(This post was edited by Artemis Roach on Dec 13 2012, 4:32pm)


waaimasjien
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 4:39pm

Post #28 of 46 (246 views)
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I didn't intend it to be condescending [In reply to] Can't Post

I take it your comment was, though?

Anyway, I do think most people who enjoy the sequence enjoy it because they want to see as much of the book they've read on-screen, not because it's good film-making.

I can appreciate films that are slow and need a long attention span, I just don't think the pacing is fitting for this particular film.


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Dec 13 2012, 4:42pm

Post #29 of 46 (239 views)
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no [In reply to] Can't Post

NO just saw it , thought its was just incredible!

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Azog
Bree


Dec 13 2012, 4:48pm

Post #30 of 46 (242 views)
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opposite actually [In reply to] Can't Post

I just got back from seeing it and the first hour was by far the best,unlike most critics I felt it went way too fast after bag end,it almost felt rushed if I'm honest,so the shire was a welcome pace for me


Artemis Roach
Bree


Dec 13 2012, 4:50pm

Post #31 of 46 (230 views)
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Funny how it works that way [In reply to] Can't Post


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I didn't mean it to be condescending.


Nobody ever does. Not even the ones nailing their film qualifications to the mast and sniffily telling others about their superior film knowledge.

I get that film snobs believe movies - sorry, films - cannot violate certain cookie-cutter parameters. Understood: "You. Shall. Not. Pass."

Film School 101: Lesson No. 1. In any movie with 13 dwarves, excise ten of them. Which is to say, if Tolkien was petrified and restricted himself to rules imposed by Literary Snobs (and all the people who study literature and agree with them), we'd never have even heard of The Hobbit or LOTR.

There and Back, Again...


(This post was edited by Artemis Roach on Dec 13 2012, 4:54pm)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 13 2012, 5:19pm

Post #32 of 46 (206 views)
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Let's just assume [In reply to] Can't Post

that the people here have good intentions, and that sometimes the restrictions of communication through the written word causes misinterpretations.


Durhil
The Shire


Dec 13 2012, 5:22pm

Post #33 of 46 (206 views)
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No, not all [In reply to] Can't Post

it felt almost as long FOTR, but a bit longer and if it really was one hour long than I sure as hell didn't notice it, but I can't imagine that it took really 1 hour.


waaimasjien
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 5:39pm

Post #34 of 46 (190 views)
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Referring to your background [In reply to] Can't Post

when making a point has nothing to do with feeling or wanting to be superior. It's just a way of saying where your knowledge and opinions come from.


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Film School 101: Lesson No. 1. In any movie with 13 dwarves, excise ten of them. Which is to say, if Tolkien was petrified and restricted himself to rules imposed by Literary Snobs (and all the people who study literature and agree with them), we'd never have even heard of The Hobbit or LOTR.

That's a good point, and I think Tolkien was indeed more interested in creating a mythology than writing acclaimed literature. I'm probably a terrible snob again, but I don't like Tolkien's writing style that much. I do however enjoy the mythology behind it.

Anyway, I take it you did like the pacing in the Hobbit? Maybe you could elaborate on why that is, instead of attacking me personally?


macfalk
Valinor


Dec 13 2012, 5:46pm

Post #35 of 46 (186 views)
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Not really [In reply to] Can't Post

"So yes, in the end it's entirely subjective, but I think most people who have seen their share of films or have studied it will agree with me."

As you can see here, the majority disagrees with you. Sure, they may not have studied films, but that does not matter at all.




The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Dec 13 2012, 5:58pm

Post #36 of 46 (184 views)
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So you even liked, [In reply to] Can't Post

the Goblin Kings death-line...? Wink

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


waaimasjien
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 6:48pm

Post #37 of 46 (148 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

and you don't have to have studied films to like or dislike a movie.

I do however think the reasons for liking it for most people here have nothing to do with the pacing, but with the fact that they can't have enough of Middle-Earth-material. That's the reason I will buy the extended edition and will buy a new edition of LotR if all deleted scenes are included as bonus features. Making the Hobbit a trilogy alone is an enormous fan service.

So I guess that's what you get on a fanforum :) . But just look at the reviews on RT. Even most positive reviews mention it's a bit overstuffed.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 13 2012, 7:20pm

Post #38 of 46 (145 views)
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here's another question, though [In reply to] Can't Post

when you are making a movie that is based on source material that is DEEPLY loved by millions of people worldwide and has been for many years...is it "good" filmmaking to sacrifice any and all fan service for the sake of more conventional pacing? as you can see, most of the Tolkien fans on here actually wish the first part was LONGER! so, does the best cinema adaptation of a beloved book try to do just one or the other--please the fans or please the film genre and the general audience--or is the most noble path the much more difficult challenge of trying to achieve a balance between both, even though it is impossible to please everyone?

you make a good point about some of the information being redundant, i'm sure that's true, but you have to bear in mind that getting handed an intro to a story where 13 new characters, all dwarves that the source material takes very little time to describe, pop up all at once is a bit of a raw deal for a filmmaker. so, while some Tolkien fans will want to lap up every second of screen time they get to spend with them, no matter how redundant some of the actual content, general movie-goers (whether they realize it or not) will also need some time just to "hang out" with the dwarves and grow accustomed to their different looks and mannerisms with the hope being that they will be able to differentiate at least a little bit between the dwarves once the adventure takes off, even if there's really only enough time to invest character development into a couple of them in the first part of the story. fine-tuned, non-redundant character development for 13 different characters that are in actuality very similar to each other in a lot of ways, and all within the span of 30-45 minutes WHILE you also have to set up the narrative and establish the main character, Bilbo, not to mention his interactions with Gandalf...i mean, i don't think even the best of filmmakers could have pulled that off. so PJ went with more of a leisurely party atmosphere--like i said, "hanging out" with the dwarves--and will hopefully find ways to work in more character development for some of them as the movies progress.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 7:56pm

Post #39 of 46 (140 views)
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You can talk all you want... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but it does not change my opinion that a large part of the movie was just kind of boring. Because nothing really happened.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''

(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Dec 13 2012, 7:57pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 13 2012, 8:25pm

Post #40 of 46 (139 views)
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i'm not trying to change your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

i'm just stating that there are plenty of valid reasons for the filmmaking choices that were made (and choices that will appeal to many people besides you), whether you personally choose to recognize those reasons as sufficient or not.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 8:28pm

Post #41 of 46 (130 views)
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What I'm trying to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's that I don't give a rats ass if they had 'valid' reasons. I find it dragging and at times boring. And the statement 'that will appeal to many people besides you' is wrong. There are others here who have said the same thing and everybody in my company agreed too. I really belief only really big fans do not find it dragging.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 13 2012, 8:39pm

Post #42 of 46 (124 views)
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if you don't care that they had valid reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

then you aren't trying to have the least bit of objectivity about the movie. and that's fine, ultimately all of our reactions to the movie are going to be more subjective than anything, but if you want to have a reasoned argument about the movie you have to at least try to look at it from both sides, no matter which part of the divide you fall on. if it dragged for you, it dragged for you, obviously i can't argue against that. and i didn't say "most" people would react differently, only "many," which has already been proven true by the many people who have come on here saying they thought it was perfect or not long enough. will Tolkien fans be the only group that contains viewers who feel this way? maybe, but probably not. there are bound to be some people who just enjoy the scenes for what they are.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 13 2012, 8:48pm

Post #43 of 46 (122 views)
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Your reaction to the movie is your own [In reply to] Can't Post

but extrapolating that reaction on to others is not reliable. When you say that "only really big fans did not find it dragging", you are imposing your perceptions onto others, which is equally wrong as you assert of unexpectedvisitor. Everyone is different, and what appeals to you might not appeal to others, and vice versa.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Dec 14 2012, 8:28pm

Post #44 of 46 (58 views)
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I really do think... [In reply to] Can't Post

that the only people who do not find the first part dragging are the 'real' fans.
Literally EVERYBODY I have spoken about The Hobbit finds it dragging...

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


Kassandros
Rohan


Dec 14 2012, 8:40pm

Post #45 of 46 (53 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was too rushed toward the end, not too slow toward the beginning.

I'd have removed the orcs and wargs before Rivendell, though. Seemed unnecessary and slowed down the movie. More dialog and less combat would have been better.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


totoro
Lorien

Dec 15 2012, 7:59pm

Post #46 of 46 (69 views)
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I guess my son and I are "really big fans" [In reply to] Can't Post

Or True Scotsmen.

We vote: First part did not drag.

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