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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The reason behind the fully CG Azog
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The Preciousss
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 1:43pm

Post #1 of 27 (1824 views)
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The reason behind the fully CG Azog Can't Post

I wonder if we ever get the truth about Azog, maybe PJ will explain in the EE.
It seems to me that he wasn't originally supposed to be the antagonist in the movie. After all we have this Yazneg character who is riding the white warg in the lego set. We also have the conflicting reports of different actors portraying him.

I got the feeling that back in the 2 film days Bolg was supposed to be the main antagonist for Thorin, because he killed his father at Azanulbizar. Yazneg was one of his hunters who chased the Company in the first half of the film. I think that when the decision was made to expand the story into a trilogy, AUJ lacked it's baddie. Azog who formerly died was changed into surviving the prologue and was pasted over the filmed scenes with Yazneg, like in ROTK where they pasted the Troll over Sauron at the Black gate. This seems to be the true reason why Azog is fully CGI. The original actor played Azog in the prologue and they used Manu Bennet to mocap the later Azog to paste over Yazneg.


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 1:57pm

Post #2 of 27 (834 views)
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I am on the same page. [In reply to] Can't Post

I also used the analogy of Aragorn vs Troll instead of Sauron.

I even think that the shot when Azog falls back thru the Eastern Gate, was originaly a shot with Bolg...

Keeping Bolg as the main baddie for three movies was impossible, so they "resurected" Azog.

I think that Azog will be killed by Beorn in the next film.

(one of the added scenes Persbrandt might shoot next year maybe...)

And Bolg will seek revenge then...


Findun
The Shire

Dec 13 2012, 2:06pm

Post #3 of 27 (831 views)
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Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

Is already supposed to kill Bolg in BOFA. Killing Azog would give him too importance. Whoever will kill Azog, I hope it will be soon in the second movie. I didn't like him at all and I was very disappointed nobody killed him during Out of the Frying-Pan


The Preciousss
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 2:07pm

Post #4 of 27 (690 views)
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Right [In reply to] Can't Post

The scene where they carry Azog back though the gate would have been an enraged Bolg, who witnessed the death of Azog.
I fimly believe that this is how it happened. I guess this should soften the whole "PJ, why did you mad Azog fully CG, when prosthetics lokk so much better"-debate a bit.


Findun
The Shire

Dec 13 2012, 2:15pm

Post #5 of 27 (700 views)
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However [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't Azog threw Yazneg down Weatertop ? Which would means that Azog didnt replace Yazgneg but another baddie, maybe Bolg himself ?

By the way, is the orc killed by Bilbo at the end of the movie Fimbul ?


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 2:18pm

Post #6 of 27 (721 views)
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Yes you are right. I forgot that. [In reply to] Can't Post

But maybe PJ wants to make Beorn more important...Wink
Or maybe Thorin will kill Azog near Beorn's house, then Bolg will kill Thorin and at last Beorn will kill Bolg.
The fact that Bolg wears a bear's skin makes me think that he kills a lot of bears with an agenda...
So I came to think that maybe Beorn killed his father.
But Thorin killing Azog is more canon...for what is left Wink


DarkJackal
Rohan


Dec 13 2012, 2:19pm

Post #7 of 27 (649 views)
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I came to the same conclusion [In reply to] Can't Post

Walking by that LEGO set today made me think that as well.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 13 2012, 2:23pm

Post #8 of 27 (836 views)
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Here's the reason I've been told by different trustworthy sources: [In reply to] Can't Post

Conan Stevens was first cast as Azog, but it didn't really work out. He was then given the role of Bolg.

John Rawls was then cast as Azog and actually filmed a couple of scenes, but he didn't work out either so they gave him the role of Yazneg.

Jackson knew Manu Bennett was good with melee weapons (Spartacus) and being a good actor, so he asked him if he would be interested. At this point I reckon they wanted to do it as fast as possible, so it was decided to go fully CG. I'm just guessing on the latter. Bennett finished shooting all his scenes in a couple of days.


(This post was edited by Carne on Dec 13 2012, 2:26pm)


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 2:24pm

Post #9 of 27 (644 views)
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On the contrary, [In reply to] Can't Post

Shooting a new scene were Azog kills Yazneg simplifies things.
Because if you replace Yazneg with Azog in every shot, then you have to put Yazneg somewhere else on those shots. (twice the work)
Unless if he is already dead.
The baddie wasn't Bolg in the first place because we saw toys with Yazneg on a white warg.
And Bolg is at Dol Guldur...

Yes by elimination the orc killed by Bilbo is Fimbul...


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 2:27pm

Post #10 of 27 (687 views)
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So... [In reply to] Can't Post

does did mean Manu Bennett will be playing Azog in the next films?

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 13 2012, 2:30pm

Post #11 of 27 (660 views)
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Most likely, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 2:36pm

Post #12 of 27 (633 views)
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I don't see the logic in that, sorry. [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it is what you've been told, but I am a bit puzzled.
First, in my mind going prosthetic is faster than fully rendered cgi.
Even if I agree that Azog is not astonishingly rendered...
Then one would assume that a prosthetic design was already locked for Stevens and maybe even Rawls.
So adapting it for Benett was faster than creating a new one from scratch.
And lastly I have seen the movie thrice and I still don't see why they needed someone with good acting skills for the role of Azog...Bennett is far better than what he had to play...

But thank you anyway for the input, it's always a pleasure to hear form you or your sauces.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Dec 13 2012, 2:38pm

Post #13 of 27 (633 views)
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Ah, good news... [In reply to] Can't Post

that will probably make the character better. More believable.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


adnan
Rivendell


Dec 13 2012, 3:42pm

Post #14 of 27 (572 views)
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CGI... [In reply to] Can't Post

So was the CGI good for Azog? was it performance capture or did they simply create his design/movement from scratch. I guess my question is does he look as impressive as Ceaser in Planet of the Apes, or average like the 'undead' in I Am Legend...or perhaps something in between?

Rivendell


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 13 2012, 3:45pm

Post #15 of 27 (560 views)
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He was done with motion capture [In reply to] Can't Post

Good CGI, but the design itself was rather bland. Not as impressive as Ceasar, so more average I'd say.


(This post was edited by Carne on Dec 13 2012, 3:46pm)


adnan
Rivendell


Dec 13 2012, 4:03pm

Post #16 of 27 (510 views)
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hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

So did he not look like a nemesis...intimidating?

Rivendell


The Preciousss
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 4:17pm

Post #17 of 27 (500 views)
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I agree that [In reply to] Can't Post

creating new prothetics would probably been easier than the full CG Azog that we got, especially given the doubled rendering time due to the 48fps.I have not seen the result in 48fps, but in 24fps he did not look as bad as I had feared (from reading some reviews here). We have Yazneg as an action figure and in the Lego-Set atop the white warg (which was preety cool). If the final confrontationthat was filmed was against Yazneg, I wonder what he told Thorin to coax him into battle.
If it really went as I suspect I think they did a rather good job except that I found it unbelieveable that Thorin would think that Azog died from a lost hand alone, even though he witnessed him bein g dragged inside. I would have a preferred a wound that would have had a higher chance of being fatal (stomach stabbing, half decapitation, collapsed lung etc.).

In reply to adnan, The design is a really big(3.meters at least), pale orc, with a lot of scars (seem more ritualistic than battlemarks) and a iron claw as handreplacement. In 24fps he looked ok, but not as disturbing as Lurtz or Gothmog. I loved the white warg though...


(This post was edited by The Preciousss on Dec 13 2012, 4:21pm)


xMb
The Shire

Dec 13 2012, 4:45pm

Post #18 of 27 (470 views)
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My orcs are all mixed up.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog is the one with the big bone mace?


Jax_Teller
Rivendell

Dec 13 2012, 4:46pm

Post #19 of 27 (474 views)
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Wow wow wow [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, Azog looks pretty intimidating, and the CG on him (saw it in HFR 3D) is top notch, he looks pretty realistic. I like the design as well, some will say it's uninspired because he's white, but I don't think of it this way.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Dec 13 2012, 5:34pm

Post #20 of 27 (438 views)
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Bolg would have been fine [In reply to] Can't Post

too bad that we ended up with that nasty Azog-plot


The Preciousss
Bree

Dec 13 2012, 5:56pm

Post #21 of 27 (396 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
too bad that we ended up with that nasty Azog-plot


But I'll reserve judgement until I have seen the whole trilogy and the appendicesWink


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Dec 13 2012, 6:13pm

Post #22 of 27 (376 views)
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I will wait until I've seen the film twice, [In reply to] Can't Post

before judging the Azog-subplot!
I have a better feeling now already than during the film

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


DarkJackal
Rohan


Dec 13 2012, 8:58pm

Post #23 of 27 (318 views)
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Fatal wounds [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that for Thorin to assume that a giant hulking orc would die from a wound like that may be the least believable thing in a movie full of unbelievable things. Wink I mean, Thorin has a dwarf in his company who survives with an axe in his head. Pirate

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Dec 13 2012, 9:34pm

Post #24 of 27 (303 views)
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That's the point isn't it? [In reply to] Can't Post

When Thorin, very vehemently, claims that Azog crawled back into his hole and died of his wounds, Balin and Gandalf exchange a very poignant set of glances which indicate very clearly that they do not believe this at all.

I think there is a strong suggestion that this is wishful - vengeful- thinking on Thorin's part. He wants it to be true, and that fuels his belief.

LR


sycorax82
Rohan

Dec 13 2012, 9:56pm

Post #25 of 27 (297 views)
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I'd say this is definitely the case and why there has been actor confusion for some time [In reply to] Can't Post

He's CGI because they didn't have enough time to reshoot with the prosthetic Azog. The reshoot week they did earlier this year will have mainly been against greenscreen in order to invent the Azog sequence to give an impactful ending to AUJ.

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