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The Preciousss
Bree
Dec 13 2012, 1:43pm
Post #1 of 27
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The reason behind the fully CG Azog
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I wonder if we ever get the truth about Azog, maybe PJ will explain in the EE. It seems to me that he wasn't originally supposed to be the antagonist in the movie. After all we have this Yazneg character who is riding the white warg in the lego set. We also have the conflicting reports of different actors portraying him. I got the feeling that back in the 2 film days Bolg was supposed to be the main antagonist for Thorin, because he killed his father at Azanulbizar. Yazneg was one of his hunters who chased the Company in the first half of the film. I think that when the decision was made to expand the story into a trilogy, AUJ lacked it's baddie. Azog who formerly died was changed into surviving the prologue and was pasted over the filmed scenes with Yazneg, like in ROTK where they pasted the Troll over Sauron at the Black gate. This seems to be the true reason why Azog is fully CGI. The original actor played Azog in the prologue and they used Manu Bennet to mocap the later Azog to paste over Yazneg.
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Notanelvishname
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 1:57pm
Post #2 of 27
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I also used the analogy of Aragorn vs Troll instead of Sauron. I even think that the shot when Azog falls back thru the Eastern Gate, was originaly a shot with Bolg... Keeping Bolg as the main baddie for three movies was impossible, so they "resurected" Azog. I think that Azog will be killed by Beorn in the next film. (one of the added scenes Persbrandt might shoot next year maybe...) And Bolg will seek revenge then...
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Findun
The Shire
Dec 13 2012, 2:06pm
Post #3 of 27
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Is already supposed to kill Bolg in BOFA. Killing Azog would give him too importance. Whoever will kill Azog, I hope it will be soon in the second movie. I didn't like him at all and I was very disappointed nobody killed him during Out of the Frying-Pan
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The Preciousss
Bree
Dec 13 2012, 2:07pm
Post #4 of 27
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The scene where they carry Azog back though the gate would have been an enraged Bolg, who witnessed the death of Azog. I fimly believe that this is how it happened. I guess this should soften the whole "PJ, why did you mad Azog fully CG, when prosthetics lokk so much better"-debate a bit.
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Findun
The Shire
Dec 13 2012, 2:15pm
Post #5 of 27
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Doesn't Azog threw Yazneg down Weatertop ? Which would means that Azog didnt replace Yazgneg but another baddie, maybe Bolg himself ? By the way, is the orc killed by Bilbo at the end of the movie Fimbul ?
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Notanelvishname
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 2:18pm
Post #6 of 27
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Yes you are right. I forgot that.
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But maybe PJ wants to make Beorn more important... Or maybe Thorin will kill Azog near Beorn's house, then Bolg will kill Thorin and at last Beorn will kill Bolg. The fact that Bolg wears a bear's skin makes me think that he kills a lot of bears with an agenda... So I came to think that maybe Beorn killed his father. But Thorin killing Azog is more canon...for what is left
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Dec 13 2012, 2:23pm
Post #8 of 27
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Here's the reason I've been told by different trustworthy sources:
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Conan Stevens was first cast as Azog, but it didn't really work out. He was then given the role of Bolg. John Rawls was then cast as Azog and actually filmed a couple of scenes, but he didn't work out either so they gave him the role of Yazneg. Jackson knew Manu Bennett was good with melee weapons (Spartacus) and being a good actor, so he asked him if he would be interested. At this point I reckon they wanted to do it as fast as possible, so it was decided to go fully CG. I'm just guessing on the latter. Bennett finished shooting all his scenes in a couple of days.
(This post was edited by Carne on Dec 13 2012, 2:26pm)
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Notanelvishname
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 2:24pm
Post #9 of 27
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Shooting a new scene were Azog kills Yazneg simplifies things. Because if you replace Yazneg with Azog in every shot, then you have to put Yazneg somewhere else on those shots. (twice the work) Unless if he is already dead. The baddie wasn't Bolg in the first place because we saw toys with Yazneg on a white warg. And Bolg is at Dol Guldur... Yes by elimination the orc killed by Bilbo is Fimbul...
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Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 2:27pm
Post #10 of 27
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does did mean Manu Bennett will be playing Azog in the next films?
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Dec 13 2012, 2:30pm
Post #11 of 27
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Notanelvishname
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 2:36pm
Post #12 of 27
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I don't see the logic in that, sorry.
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I know it is what you've been told, but I am a bit puzzled. First, in my mind going prosthetic is faster than fully rendered cgi. Even if I agree that Azog is not astonishingly rendered... Then one would assume that a prosthetic design was already locked for Stevens and maybe even Rawls. So adapting it for Benett was faster than creating a new one from scratch. And lastly I have seen the movie thrice and I still don't see why they needed someone with good acting skills for the role of Azog...Bennett is far better than what he had to play... But thank you anyway for the input, it's always a pleasure to hear form you or your sauces.
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Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien
Dec 13 2012, 2:38pm
Post #13 of 27
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that will probably make the character better. More believable.
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
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adnan
Rivendell
Dec 13 2012, 3:42pm
Post #14 of 27
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So was the CGI good for Azog? was it performance capture or did they simply create his design/movement from scratch. I guess my question is does he look as impressive as Ceaser in Planet of the Apes, or average like the 'undead' in I Am Legend...or perhaps something in between?
Rivendell
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Dec 13 2012, 3:45pm
Post #15 of 27
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He was done with motion capture
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Good CGI, but the design itself was rather bland. Not as impressive as Ceasar, so more average I'd say.
(This post was edited by Carne on Dec 13 2012, 3:46pm)
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adnan
Rivendell
Dec 13 2012, 4:03pm
Post #16 of 27
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So did he not look like a nemesis...intimidating?
Rivendell
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The Preciousss
Bree
Dec 13 2012, 4:17pm
Post #17 of 27
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creating new prothetics would probably been easier than the full CG Azog that we got, especially given the doubled rendering time due to the 48fps.I have not seen the result in 48fps, but in 24fps he did not look as bad as I had feared (from reading some reviews here). We have Yazneg as an action figure and in the Lego-Set atop the white warg (which was preety cool). If the final confrontationthat was filmed was against Yazneg, I wonder what he told Thorin to coax him into battle. If it really went as I suspect I think they did a rather good job except that I found it unbelieveable that Thorin would think that Azog died from a lost hand alone, even though he witnessed him bein g dragged inside. I would have a preferred a wound that would have had a higher chance of being fatal (stomach stabbing, half decapitation, collapsed lung etc.). In reply to adnan, The design is a really big(3.meters at least), pale orc, with a lot of scars (seem more ritualistic than battlemarks) and a iron claw as handreplacement. In 24fps he looked ok, but not as disturbing as Lurtz or Gothmog. I loved the white warg though...
(This post was edited by The Preciousss on Dec 13 2012, 4:21pm)
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xMb
The Shire
Dec 13 2012, 4:45pm
Post #18 of 27
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Azog is the one with the big bone mace?
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Jax_Teller
Rivendell
Dec 13 2012, 4:46pm
Post #19 of 27
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To me, Azog looks pretty intimidating, and the CG on him (saw it in HFR 3D) is top notch, he looks pretty realistic. I like the design as well, some will say it's uninspired because he's white, but I don't think of it this way.
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The Preciousss
Bree
Dec 13 2012, 5:56pm
Post #21 of 27
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too bad that we ended up with that nasty Azog-plot But I'll reserve judgement until I have seen the whole trilogy and the appendices
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painjoiker
Grey Havens
Dec 13 2012, 6:13pm
Post #22 of 27
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I will wait until I've seen the film twice,
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before judging the Azog-subplot! I have a better feeling now already than during the film
Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Dec 13 2012, 8:58pm
Post #23 of 27
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I agree that for Thorin to assume that a giant hulking orc would die from a wound like that may be the least believable thing in a movie full of unbelievable things. I mean, Thorin has a dwarf in his company who survives with an axe in his head.
The Hobbit Photo Gallery
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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens
Dec 13 2012, 9:34pm
Post #24 of 27
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When Thorin, very vehemently, claims that Azog crawled back into his hole and died of his wounds, Balin and Gandalf exchange a very poignant set of glances which indicate very clearly that they do not believe this at all. I think there is a strong suggestion that this is wishful - vengeful- thinking on Thorin's part. He wants it to be true, and that fuels his belief. LR
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sycorax82
Rohan
Dec 13 2012, 9:56pm
Post #25 of 27
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I'd say this is definitely the case and why there has been actor confusion for some time
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He's CGI because they didn't have enough time to reshoot with the prosthetic Azog. The reshoot week they did earlier this year will have mainly been against greenscreen in order to invent the Azog sequence to give an impactful ending to AUJ.
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