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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
*potential spoilers* Gandalf's Staff
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Joe20
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 2:57pm

Post #1 of 40 (1378 views)
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*potential spoilers* Gandalf's Staff Can't Post

I was watching the clips and the 13 minute documentary (again), and saw this. It looks as though Gandalf perhaps takes Radagast's staff at some point.

In the first image, Gandalf has his normal staff and Radagast has his. Yet in the second it appears as though Gandalf has Radagast's.

http://i46.tinypic.com/t5rt55.png

http://i45.tinypic.com/282m8g1.png

I have only been following the production closely in the past couple of months, but have I missed something? Do we know anything about this?


(This post was edited by Joe20 on Dec 8 2012, 2:58pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Dec 8 2012, 2:59pm

Post #2 of 40 (622 views)
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Well spotted! [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont think we have any answers as of now, though.

LR


gareteld
The Shire


Dec 8 2012, 3:38pm

Post #3 of 40 (576 views)
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many have said that perhaps radagast dies [In reply to] Can't Post

but i dont think he will! i reckon he chooses to leave the istari and become one with nature and hands over his staff to gandalf whose staff i presume will be broken when the white council challenge the necromancer at dol gudur


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 3:40pm

Post #4 of 40 (722 views)
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An interview with Sylvester McCoy drops quite a large hint....spoilers! [In reply to] Can't Post

HC: And you get to carry a staff…

SM: If you know your “Lord of the Rings,” you might recognize it. You’ll have to wait and see what happens in the next three years. You’ll find out about that staff. It’s quite important eventually. It’s a mystery. I don’t want to give it all away.

Now if that ain't proof that Raddy is going to die, I don't know what is....

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 3:41pm

Post #5 of 40 (594 views)
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haha yep that pretty much confirms it. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:00pm

Post #6 of 40 (563 views)
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Can't see your point to be honest [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now if that ain't proof that Raddy is going to die, I don't know what is....


Well... it only says that Radagasts staff might be the first one of Gandalf in FOTR. The one he looses in his fight with Saruman. But there is no hint that Radagast is going to die. Also I don't think he's gonna die. Why? Because we know that he will be in all three movies and we know aswell that several dwarven heroes (Thorin, Kili and Fili) will fall at the end of TABA and some will later (Oin, Balin, Ori). This is not "Game of Thrones" where all our beloved heroes are going to die Tongue But if it is well acted and usefull for the plot... I'm not against this idea.


But there can be several reasons for him to give it to Gandalf. Death is only one of them.

- He leaves Middle-earth by ship (into the west)
- He leaves the order of Istari to became even more one with the nature/the forest
- He is banned from the order by Saruman and has to pass it to a member of the order and choses Gandalf
- Gandalf looses his AUJ-staff in Dol Guldur and Radagast gives his staff to him
- Radagast gives his staff as a gift to Gandalf to thank him for something
- He transforms himself into the moth from LOTR and isn't able to carry a staff anymore ;-)
- He dies and passes it over to Gandalf, who promises to finish their mission



"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Dec 8 2012, 4:03pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 8 2012, 4:04pm

Post #7 of 40 (499 views)
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Eagle eyes! [In reply to] Can't Post

We've speculated in the past that, at some point, Gandalf takes up Radagast's staff - either after his death (if he dies), or for some other reason.

I wonder if it has anything to do with Dol Guldur? Crazy Radagast had a confrontation with a Ringwraith ... Maybe Gandalf needs his staff for something?

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:11pm

Post #8 of 40 (522 views)
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As I mentioned in a previous post... [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast's staff has a crystal, while Gandalf's does not seem to in AUJ. However in FOTR Gandalf uses a crystal in his staff to light the way in Moria. So either he ends up with Radagast's crystal or possibly his staff.

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."


Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:16pm

Post #9 of 40 (556 views)
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I think Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post

does indeed become the Moth. It ties in nicely with LOTR. How else could Gandalf have talked to a moth on Orthanc? surely the power to talk to animals was Radagasts domain? Radagast for whatever reason could be attacked by the Necromancer, and to save himself he turns into the Moth, but cant change back. Gandalf promises to take the staff and Radagast promises to help when he can. Part of this new affinity Gandalf has with animals comes in useful and helps Gandalf meet Shadowfax and he is able to communicate with Shadowfax to ask for help. This way, Radagast does not actually die, which would be hard to take in a 'kiddies' film, him being so cute and all.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 8 2012, 4:17pm

Post #10 of 40 (471 views)
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Or both crystal and staff? / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:24pm

Post #11 of 40 (453 views)
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Yes, I meant... [In reply to] Can't Post

Staff with crystal. Although, didn't Gandalf take the crystal out from somewhere (a pocket?) and then place it in his staff in Moria?

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."


MTT Gandalf
Bree


Dec 8 2012, 4:35pm

Post #12 of 40 (503 views)
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Radagast's staff [In reply to] Can't Post

It's like the second staff of Gandalf in FOTR, not like the first. Gandalf takes this after the escape from Orthanc.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:36pm

Post #13 of 40 (462 views)
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Yes, agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

It would take a lot to do in Radagast I think, being a Wizard and all; although admittedly Saruman was killed relatively easily (in the books anyway) by Wormtongue. However Saruman had been stripped of his powers and his staff broken by Gandalf the White.

Besides, Radagast is indeed sure cute Blush . I'm enjoying the clips with him worrying about his trees and critters, and admiring the fact he goes into Dol Guldur apparently by himself.

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:44pm

Post #14 of 40 (460 views)
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Here's an image of the crystal [In reply to] Can't Post

in Moria.

From this site: http://www.tk421.net/lotr/film/fotr/20.html

Photos and dialog.

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Dec 8 2012, 4:46pm)
Attachments: fotr1014.jpg (33.5 KB)


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 4:44pm

Post #15 of 40 (476 views)
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Good ideas but I still think that the "death" or "moth" theories are the answer. [In reply to] Can't Post

Being able to transform into a moth would certainly fit Radagast's character. Sailing into the West would contradict Tolkien, given that Gandalf was the only one to return, plus Raddy would have to return in shame having not completed the task of the Istari, even if he had completed Yavanna's task.

If he was kicked from the order by Saruman as you suggest, then surely Gandalf and the others would have a reason to dislike and therefore possibly suspect Saruman, provided of course that they knew about it? As long as Radagast stays out of Saruman's way then I don't think the White Wizard is too bothered about him. Besides, if Saruman could do that, Gandalf would have probably suffered the same fate in FOTR, as Saruman never liked him either (though it was jealously as opposed to scorn).

Giving his staff to Gandalf would work but I think that's a little too undramatic for PJ. In terms of leaving the order, he could perhaps turn his back on it, but surely he couldn't technically leave it, unless he sailed away, died or was banished from it?

It may not be "Game of Thrones" (Which I've never seen, sadly) but PJ certainly seemed to think that it was in TTT when he "killed" Aragorn, and then proceeded to kill Haldir.Laugh

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.

(This post was edited by Radagast-Aiwendil on Dec 8 2012, 4:46pm)


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 5:03pm

Post #16 of 40 (444 views)
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I see the connection! [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see it...

Perhaps Radagast gives his staff to Gandalf at the end of TABA.
Gandalf already having his own staff taking Radagasts to Rivendell and leaves it there.
Something happens to Gandalfs AUJ-staff we do not know yet.
After he returned from Orthanc where he loses his first (or second after the AUJ one) staff to Saruman he takes Radagasts one which he left in Rivendell... it would make sense to me.
Later he loses this staff in his battle with the Balrog.
Returning as Gandalf the White with a new white staff (perhaps from Lothlorien as a gift from Galadriel).
He breaks Sarumans staff after his defeat.
He loses his new white staff during his confrontation with the Witch King.
In the end of ROTK Gandalf leaves Middle-earth with a new white staff...

Wow... what a waste of staffs... man I wouldn't borrow Gandalf my staff if I were a wizard he would ask me ;-)

But wasn't there a quote of Saruman from the books chapter The Voice of Saruman: "Later! Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now." - There we have it. Gandalf wants to have all staffs. Perhaps he already used the staffs of the blue wizards? Think about it Tongue I think PJ took this quote very serious.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Dec 8 2012, 5:04pm)


Pousette
Rivendell


Dec 8 2012, 5:06pm

Post #17 of 40 (390 views)
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That's definitely no proof. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


ForestPark
Rivendell


Dec 8 2012, 5:30pm

Post #18 of 40 (381 views)
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Staff images [In reply to] Can't Post

Rod of Rassil...oops Radagast .
Attachments: Rod 2.jpg (5.46 KB)
  the rod.jpg (5.53 KB)


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 5:32pm

Post #19 of 40 (376 views)
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Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Those words of Saruman will finally carry some weight if we end up seeing Gandalf take up Radagast's staff. Another good example of connective tissue between the two tales that is neither as overblown nor glaringly obvious, though I suppose we will not know for certain until we have finished watching these films, as that scene will likely occur in There and Back Again if it happens at all.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 6:04pm

Post #20 of 40 (354 views)
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now youve got me thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

that Gandalf gets his staff destroyed by the Necromancer in the Battle of Dol Guldur. Maybe at that time the Necromancer/Sauron and Gandalf were more evenly matched in strength. Maybe they fought more on an even playing field in the time of the Hobbit. Something happens to Radagast (moth theory) and Gandalf takes Radagasts staff as a result.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Dec 8 2012, 6:31pm

Post #21 of 40 (340 views)
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Amazing how early on I noticed this! [In reply to] Can't Post

Back on PD #1 http://newboards.theonering.net/...uest=57216845#403804

I also made this theory a while ago... Radagast makes staffs http://newboards.theonering.net/...uest=57216845#516420

**smug** Laugh


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 8:12pm

Post #22 of 40 (233 views)
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I know it's not proof, but it could be proof..besides, the likelihood of him either [In reply to] Can't Post

  dying or becoming the moth, is agreed by most to be the most predictable option.//

(subject line edited for possible spoilers)

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 8 2012, 9:41pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 8:20pm

Post #23 of 40 (226 views)
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That moth idea, [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not like it, and i doubt that's even close. Sounds kind of silly.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 8:23pm

Post #24 of 40 (227 views)
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I agree that it seems quite silly, but lots of people on this forum, [In reply to] Can't Post

 myself included, think it's possible simply because it would connect Raddy to LOTR, without needing to kill him//

(subject line edited for possible spoilers)

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 8 2012, 9:42pm)


utku
Rivendell


Dec 8 2012, 8:40pm

Post #25 of 40 (201 views)
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Why can't we have both? [In reply to] Can't Post

So after the battle, the grey wizard sees Radagast's staff on the ground, next to his hat. Saddened by the realization of the passing of his colleague, he picks up the staff. Right at that moment a moth appears and flies away as Gandalf smiles. Tongue

Yes it's silly and perhaps over the top dramatic but it leaves things to viewers imagination and thus we can all be happy. People finding it stupid can just ignore the connection and those who look for it will get the LotR connection.

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