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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
This WB strategy that makes me wonder...
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aifeme
Rivendell


Dec 7 2012, 11:56am

Post #1 of 39 (1584 views)
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This WB strategy that makes me wonder... Can't Post

     We got second trailer after months and months of waiting and it was fantastic. Now, we are getting a lot of TV spots, behind-the-scenes videos and really long clips from the movie.
My question is: why WB wants us to see a quarter of the footage just before premiere? I mean, six clips couple of minutes each, and now...the White Council clip, which made me a little bit upset. I haven't seen it, just like other clips. If it contains great acting from Our Old Friends, why would we want to see this ripped out of context in front of our computers with tea or coffee when the premiere is in a couple of days?
I'm okay with TV spots, but for me they've gone a little too far withs those clips and making-of-videos (seen couple of scenes and turned it off). I'm also surprised that a lot of people have seen it here. It's all WB's fault.


I would appreciate Your thoughts about this.


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Dec 7 2012, 12:04pm

Post #2 of 39 (884 views)
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Damage limitation? [In reply to] Can't Post

These clips make the film look good - a lot of the reviews coming out don't.

* crunch *


Elessar
Valinor


Dec 7 2012, 12:11pm

Post #3 of 39 (821 views)
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A lot? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say the majority have been quite good towards the movie so I'd say that statement is off just a bit.



Avnar
Lorien


Dec 7 2012, 12:34pm

Post #4 of 39 (754 views)
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Ummm... [In reply to] Can't Post

What reviews have you been reading?? Every review I have read has something negative to say about the film... Some have a lot some have a little.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 7 2012, 12:36pm

Post #5 of 39 (741 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are plenty out there that are purely positive.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Avnar
Lorien


Dec 7 2012, 12:39pm

Post #6 of 39 (724 views)
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I honestly haven't read one... [In reply to] Can't Post

?

All the reviews I have read have pointed out things they didn't like about the film from the comedy to the 48fps etc etc

Nevermind...


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Dec 7 2012, 12:40pm

Post #7 of 39 (769 views)
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The rating for The Hobbit on RT is 70% [In reply to] Can't Post

Which means that most reviews are very happy with the film Smile

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 7 2012, 12:44pm

Post #8 of 39 (814 views)
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A lot of the "negative" reviews... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that I've read are directed at the extra exposition or padding out.

So okay, this film is deeper than your normal adventure film, it has more backstory. That is bad how?

As a fan of the source material, those sorts of reviews have got me excited that I'm going to see so much more of Middle-earth, so many more characters, watch them interact, discuss stuff that other characters in the story don't know, etc.

If nothing else, this is proof PJ makes films for the fans. Critics, well, probably most of them are watching the film to judge it, not to enjoy it. I couldn't care less what a critic thinks about these films. They're a labour of love, drawn from great material, and adapted by fans of that material, who also care about honoring the source material AND pleasing the fans.

Even just given the precious little I've seen, I'm sure I'll love it. Critics be damned! Cool



Avnar
Lorien


Dec 7 2012, 12:52pm

Post #9 of 39 (677 views)
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Well said! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am worried because every clip that I have seen has been really good! So where's the 10/10 reviews?? I trust Empire the most and they gave it 4 stars...all the previous LOTR's films got 5!

What gives?

Makes me wonder if the film just doesn't flow well or the comedy (which has been absent from most of the clips I have seen) is really bad...

I heard a rumor (well I read it in a review) that one of the bad guys gets off a really bad one liner as he is dying that is "cringe worthy" Unsure In my wildest dreams I can't picture ANY bad guy from the originals doing this!


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 7 2012, 1:06pm

Post #10 of 39 (681 views)
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To be fair... [In reply to] Can't Post

... there were quite a few bad one-liners in LOTR (like "meat's back on the menu, boy!"), but I think they got picked out much later, and after repeated viewings.

With The Hobbit, since the hype is so much, I think people are bound to watch the films with a high degree of scrutiny even at first viewing. And when one does that, it's inevitable one finds flaws, either in the acting, the dialogue, the delivery, the colour grading, the 3D, the 48 fps... the story Shocked

The way I see it, I've waited the better half of a decade for these films, and after the mega rollercoaster ride when at several points they almost never happened, they're here. I don't know how much most of these critics cared about these films, or followed along during its rough pre-production journey, or empathized with PJ, Fran, Philippa, the actors, the WETA guys, who all fought to even get these films greenlighted a couple of years ago.

I lived all that! Even if I did so from half a world away. And so these films are to me more than just something I'll watch once (or twice!) and pass judgement on.

Yes, there will be moments I won't like in the film. But then I have such moments in LOTR as well. And yet, even given all of that, I love the films. The whole has always been greater than the sum of its parts. I've trusted in PJ, Fran, and Philippa for so long. I still trust and believe these films will be amazing.

I'm not about to give up all of this just because a few 100 critics out there feel differently.



(This post was edited by Earl on Dec 7 2012, 1:06pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Dec 7 2012, 1:53pm

Post #11 of 39 (565 views)
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Well said Earl [In reply to] Can't Post

When I've seen critics or others I know (who I wouldn't really call fans of Middle-earth) talk about the padding I know the film is going to be fantastic because what's been added is more of the incredible info out there.



Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Dec 7 2012, 2:41pm

Post #12 of 39 (558 views)
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I'm putting most of the footage together... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and it comes out to around 12 minutes, or 7% of the movie. (trailers, clips, spots, and a little from the the TV special)

For me this is not to much, knowing the plot and visuals already. I prefer to be "oriented" beforehand so I don't miss anything when I'm watching the full movie. Not sure if that makes sense.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2012, 3:00pm

Post #13 of 39 (498 views)
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"I couldn't care less what a critic thinks about these films" [In reply to] Can't Post

On the other hand, if the "damned" critics were praising this movie to the glourious heavens, how many would be saying : Look! Even all these critics loved the film! If such critical appraisal exists it is because the films are amazing! Here IS the proof!

Fandom, has its faults.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 7 2012, 3:10pm

Post #14 of 39 (486 views)
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While I am aware of critiques... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I don't really use them to validate my likes and dislikes.

And I am, of course, only speaking for myself here Smile



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2012, 3:17pm

Post #15 of 39 (446 views)
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Good to know [:)] [In reply to] Can't Post

But since the bad reviews have arrived, the typical fanboy reaction " they are saying bad things, they have no credibility. they are saying good things, its the truth. " has spread...

It is really amusing to read...Unimpressed


Tim
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2012, 3:40pm

Post #16 of 39 (427 views)
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We all do this [In reply to] Can't Post

We get together with some friends, we watch a movie, then we hash it out afterwards. The friends we agree with we think "get it" and the friends we don't agree with we think are "clueless". Or we invite a friend to a movie and they don't want to even try it out, 'cause they're not interested in it and they dismiss it, and we think "wow, what's wrong with them." It's just human nature.

Review metrics like Rotten Tomatoes are good for getting a general vibe on a movie, but that's about it. I've tried to find some reviewers that I generally agree with, but I have yet to find one that agree's with me enough to rely on them.

If you're interested in the subject matter, see the movie for yourself and make up your own mind. I would never have believed Jar Jar was so terrible unless I had witnessed it for myself.

This place is to agree and disagree with the critics and fellow fans, so if you think these guys are probably full of crap, I don't have a problem with anyone saying so. I feel your pain, we all want others to like the same stuff we like so we can share the joy. There's nothing wrong with that. We're social beings. Just as long as we show some self restraint and stay polite, I say grumble away and get it out of your system.

So far, even with bad reviews, I haven't seen anyone knocking the acting or the story. That's what matters most to me. It hasn't gotten a Prometheus reaction where a lot of people come out more confused than when they went in.

And the clips! Holy cinematic tastiness Batman! I really enjoy what I've seen so far of the movie through the clips and trailers. I've seen a lot more of this movie than I did, say, of the Phantom Menace. So I feel comfortable disagreeing with negative reviews with just about everything except the 48fps. That does seem to have the potential to suck, but I'm still going to try it out for myself. There are options and if I find I don't enjoy the 48fps I can always watch it in 24. And at home, we're all going to be watching it in 24, as far as I know.

Arthur: What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: I... am an enchanter.
Arthur: By what name are you known?
Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2012, 4:09pm

Post #17 of 39 (388 views)
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I was [In reply to] Can't Post

referring to a double standard pattern one can clearly see in many fandoms and one which only expresses imaturity and an inability to handle criticism. Also, attributing credibility only when the critical output is positive.

I kow its human. Its also , IMO, a wrong attitude to have towards films and critics.


Lindele
Gondor


Dec 7 2012, 4:09pm

Post #18 of 39 (405 views)
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This is normal [In reply to] Can't Post

Studios always release film clips, TV spots, featurettes, etc for promotional purposes. The media uses those assets to promote the film.
Of course, a lot more marketing is going into The Hobbit than a lot of other films might get...but nonetheless it's all very normal.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 7 2012, 4:51pm

Post #19 of 39 (402 views)
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the reviews are fine [In reply to] Can't Post

i still don't get why people are getting worked up about the reviews. and this is not coming from a place of "i think reviews and critics are pointless," as i've written more than my share of reviews in my time--it's fun and can be helpful to share insight on a piece of entertainment/art. but, more, what is so disconcerting, SPECIFICALLY, about the general critical consensus so far?

as someone pointed out, RT is at about 70%. mostly positive reviews. of the reviews listed as "rotten," only a couple are full-on negative, most of them falling more into the 2 or 2.5 out of 4 kinda variety, and almost none of them seem to complain about the adaptation writing or the production values or the acting. generally, they didn't care for the overall length, the pacing in the beginning, and some were put off by the very optional 48 FPS presentation (the lighter, sometimes sillier tone gets a few mixed reactions but in general most people seem to like it and understand that it's somewhat reflective of the book). if that stuff is a major concern for you, fine, i guess it's time to lower your expectations, but in general i'm seeing a lot of the discouraged people on here having just a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that the percentage on some review aggregate site isn't as high as they'd like it to be.

someone mentioned that there have been almost no purely positive reviews of the movie. well, yes, that'd be true...and that'd be true of just about every other movie you could care to mention. if a review takes no time for a point of constructive criticism, then it runs the risk of looking like pure hyperbole or PR material. still, there have already been a good deal of reviews for the movie that are MOSTLY positive. the Empire review, which i still think is the best in terms of the writing and the level of insight (and for some reason still hasn't been included on RT). the review over at JoBlo doesn't have many negative things to say, just recognizes that "perhaps inevitably" it can't quite live up to the standard of LotR. Marshall Fine's review is interesting because he starts off talking about he walked into the screening totally ready to be a naysayer because he didn't think Jackson could adequately do any kind of a follow-up to LotR and he didn't like the idea of The Hobbit becoming a trilogy and he walked out a total believer. those are just a few examples of reviews that had a lot more good than bad to say.

and, again, a lot of the "negative" reviews say things like "but there are parts that are just as compelling as LotR" or "the Riddles in the Dark scene is iconic" or having nothing bad to say about the acting, the dialogue, the technical achievements (aside from some reviewers' distaste for HFR)--all very important facets of the movie. it will be tough for some viewers to develop a strong emotional investment in what is just 1/3 of a story, just 1/3 of the character arcs, when the stakes aren't as clearly heightened and defined as they were in LotR. i think that part will be a bit easier for us Tolkien fans and will hopefully grow on the critics and general movie-going audience with the next two installments. it sounds like Thorin's character is already off to a strong start, even according to the mixed reviews...can you imagine the kind of emotional impact his death in TABA might end up having, for everyone? possibly why we're hearing Fili and Kili's names popping up in reviews, too. this is another place where the move to three films and about 9 hours is going to pay-off. the pathos as tied into the characters should be much richer than it otherwise would have been had PJ and co. tried to breeze through the story (which might have made the critics happier in the short run but left them feeling much less at the end).


Aragorn the Elfstone
Grey Havens


Dec 7 2012, 5:11pm

Post #20 of 39 (399 views)
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Weren't any of you around last time?! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is NO different from what we went through for the original trilogy. We had what felt like 50 different tv spots popping up in the last couple weeks, multiple tv behind-the-scenes specials, and film clips released on the internet (albeit in crappy lo-res streaming quality).This is standard practice for these films.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Dec 7 2012, 5:27pm

Post #21 of 39 (335 views)
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Many reviews contain both positive and negative reactions [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What reviews have you been reading?? Every review I have read has something negative to say about the film... Some have a lot some have a little.



There is nothing wrong with a mostly positive review expressing some concerns or negative comments. Most honest reviews will have both.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Captain Sassy Pants
The Shire

Dec 7 2012, 6:07pm

Post #22 of 39 (317 views)
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Fans of which, exactly? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... that I've read are directed at the extra exposition or padding out.

So okay, this film is deeper than your normal adventure film, it has more backstory. That is bad how?

As a fan of the source material, those sorts of reviews have got me excited that I'm going to see so much more of Middle-earth, so many more characters, watch them interact, discuss stuff that other characters in the story don't know, etc.

If nothing else, this is proof PJ makes films for the fans. Critics, well, probably most of them are watching the film to judge it, not to enjoy it. I couldn't care less what a critic thinks about these films. They're a labour of love, drawn from great material, and adapted by fans of that material, who also care about honoring the source material AND pleasing the fans.

Even just given the precious little I've seen, I'm sure I'll love it. Critics be damned! Cool


Fans of himself, or fans of the source material? None of the Jackson revisionisms I've read about have made me excited, speaking as a fan of Tolkien/the books. In fact, I went from very excited with the first trailer, to the point of barely even wanting to see it the more and more I saw or read about.

Testicle-chinned, gigantic, fat goblins sitting on toilets and defecating as they speak doesn't excite me. "Chewing on testicles disgustingly" mayor of Lake Town doesn't excite me. Hearing "continuity is for p*ssies" doesn't excite me (as I am a huge stickler when it comes to this). CGI goblins that look completely different from the goblins seen in Moria, despite the fact that they are both in the Misty Mountains doesn't excite me. Dwarves that look like men doesn't excite me. Dwarves with extremely stupid hair cuts (here's looking at you, star-head) doesn't excite me. Thorin, who was among the oldest/was the oldest of the dwarves being one of the younger ones doesn't excite me. Azog, who was dead long before the Hobbit took place, being the main antagonist of the first movie doesn't excite me. The changes to the reasons why the dwarves and orcs were at war doesn't excite me. Hearing that miniatures and bigatures were sacrificed so he could film in 3D, a format I care nothing about and will never pay to see, really bothers me. While I much prefer the new design, changing the way the wargs look doesn't excite me as they are completely different from what was seen before. The addition of Tauriel and a possible romantic interest with one of the dwarves doesn't excite me. Adding extra content, that he has no legal rights to and therefore has to completely change the events as they actually transpired, really doesn't excite me. Radagast running around pulled by bunnies, his hair and beard covered in bird crap, doesn't excite me.

I think this is where the "Phantom Menace" comparisons come in. Pushing new technology over everything else: check. Over use of CGI (didn't Armitage say in a recent interview that 70% of the movie is CGI) instead of using sets/minis/costumes: check. A director whose fans believe can do no wrong: check. A director who has grown a little too full on himself/his ideas and has been allowed to run wild and unchecked: check.

What is the saving grace here is that at least these movies are built on the foundation of an established story, and not purely the whims of someone who's lost complete touch with everything else.

I honestly hate when someone gets a hold of someone else's work and decides that they need to put their stamp on it, changing things that never needed to be changed just for the sake of change. I know omissions and changes are necessary here and there, but often they go too far (Ring in Osgiliath, shown a few feet from a Ring Wraith, springs immediately to mind. But at least they had the good sense to add the line "By all rights we shouldn't even be here" to that scene).

For those who are excited, good on you. But I hope you at least understand why some of us other fans simply aren't.


(This post was edited by Captain Sassy Pants on Dec 7 2012, 6:12pm)


Metal Slug
Rivendell

Dec 7 2012, 6:12pm

Post #23 of 39 (316 views)
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Agree with OP [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a veritable deluge of spoilers and footage coming out. If this happened one day before public release, fine. But to have it coming out weeks in advance, that's murder for the fans. I've been really disappointed with this supposed launch. To have critics going to see it 1, 2, -3 times before the proles are allowed to enjoy what little bits of the film haven't already been spoiled.


(This post was edited by Metal Slug on Dec 7 2012, 6:16pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 7 2012, 6:35pm

Post #24 of 39 (274 views)
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me too [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont give a monkeys what critics think, and I dont give a monkeys about the rating, who cares what percentage its got? If I like it, then I am happy.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 7 2012, 6:37pm

Post #25 of 39 (280 views)
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a person who's judging the movie before seeing it? [In reply to] Can't Post

check.

but hey, it's your prerogative if you don't like what you've seen so far.

i think most of us have. that doesn't make us any less of Tolkien fans.

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