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noWizardme
Lorien
Dec 5 2012, 5:28pm
Views: 1116
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Oft evil will shall evil mar - a recurring theme?
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Can't Post
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"Oft evil will shall evil mar" quotes Theoden (odd word order, has he, Lord of Horses - the Anglo Saxon influence it must be, unless he's channelling Yoda).
It does strike me that the theme of evil spoiling evil is recurring in the Lord of the Rings and does a lot to bring "the Wise" to eventual victory. I'd like to discuss, starting with a few examples
Theoden quotes this proverb in Two Towers, when Pippin has just looked into the Palantir, thereby saving Gandalf from trying it. Gandalf, of course got the palantir only because Wormtongue threw it at him, in his hatred using one of Saruman's chief treasures as a missile. Saruman is only holed up in Orthanc with Wormtongue because he's been corrupted by wanting the Ring, but he's far from a reliable ally for Sauron, and many of his actions have indirectly helped Sauron's enemies. For example, he's only under siege in Orthanc because of events that follow from his attempt to seize the Ring from the Fellowship. And that attempt went wrong partly because of squabbles between different factions in the orc raiding force. And anyway, he missed the Ring Bearer because the Ring had finally driven one of the Fellowship mad, and scared Frodo away before Saruman's orcs get to him.
Earlier in the story, Sauron is forced to send the Ringwraiths to the Shire, unsuitable as they are for a stealth mission, because any other agent who got hold of the Ring would try to keep it. The Barrow Wight's attempt to snatch the hobbits (to get the Ring? or just because they are passing?) results in them getting Nazgul-slaying weaponry, which then probably causes the Black Riders not to press their attack too hard after Weathertop.
Of course, the biggest freelancer of all is Gollum, whose attempt to get the Ring back is what allows it to be destroyed.
If evil put up a more united front, could it have been defeated at all?
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Oft evil will shall evil mar - a recurring theme?
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noWizardme
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Dec 5 2012, 5:28pm
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A few more examples...
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noWizardme
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Dec 5 2012, 6:16pm
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Heartily agree I do
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CuriousG
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Dec 5 2012, 7:45pm
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And more
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CuriousG
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Dec 6 2012, 6:03pm
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The one ring itself
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noWizardme
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Dec 6 2012, 6:23pm
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Yes, and by no means limited to Tolkien.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 6 2012, 6:24pm
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The formula for James Bond and other villains
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CuriousG
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Dec 6 2012, 8:25pm
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Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan?
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noWizardme
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Dec 6 2012, 10:34pm
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Sauron as Evil Overlord
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Elizabeth
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Dec 7 2012, 3:45am
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Ah, I should have said "no Evil Overlord mistakes except the ones I didn't think of"...
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 10:54am
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Plotholes and eagles
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:26pm
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Nazgul combat air patrol
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 5:09pm
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A new eagle plot hole filler
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 5:35pm
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It's an inexhaustable discussion topic.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 7 2012, 7:07pm
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I'm glad they didn't, but
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 7:27pm
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I agree with this
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Ardamírë
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Dec 7 2012, 8:54pm
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Isn't there some
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Plurmo
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Dec 8 2012, 3:36am
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In all honesty
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Ardamírë
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Dec 8 2012, 4:01pm
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Heroes and underdogs
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:33pm
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The Nazgul and Evil Overlord rule 80
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 6:36pm
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I think Sauron was clever about the One Ring
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:05pm
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An odd Return to Owner feature
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 4:27pm
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To say nothing of an idea likely close to Tolkien's heart:
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SirDennisC
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Dec 7 2012, 2:55pm
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interesting topic
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elostirion74
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Dec 10 2012, 8:32pm
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A bit of both
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noWizardme
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Dec 10 2012, 9:14pm
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Credibility and the One Ring
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CuriousG
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Dec 11 2012, 4:58pm
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That's worth 2 new threads! :)
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noWizardme
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Dec 16 2012, 7:09pm
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Gandalf answered #1
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CuriousG
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Dec 16 2012, 8:52pm
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given the slightest encouragement...
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 12:07pm
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The greatest example of this has yet to be said!!!!!!!!!!
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Beren0nehanded
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Dec 11 2012, 1:26pm
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Morgoth the exception?
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Felagund
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Dec 16 2012, 5:25pm
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Curses can be your best friend
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CuriousG
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Dec 16 2012, 6:29pm
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link to eucatastrophy
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 3:22pm
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Second thoughts!
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 7:02pm
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Post then self-disagree? All too often. :) //
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CuriousG
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Dec 18 2012, 7:45pm
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"We knows what we thinks, precious." "No, no we doesn't think that at all!"
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 9:53pm
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