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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
More like ROTK than FOTR...
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cameragod
Lorien


Nov 30 2012, 6:01am

Post #1 of 38 (2206 views)
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More like ROTK than FOTR... Can't Post

According to a friend who was at the premiere. That surprised me a bit because for no real reason I just thought that AUJ would be more like FOTR.
He said he had just watched the LOTR trilogy the weekend before (geek :) ) and the first Hobbit felt like it was shot in the style of ROTK...in a very good way and even better it just felt right... like he was back in the Middle Earth he loved.
He said the only complaint was now he had seen HFR 3D he never wanted to see a movie any other way.

All artists are prepared to suffer for their work, but why are so few prepared to learn to draw? :BANKSY


"A Cameraman without a camera is just a man." Stephen Press


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 30 2012, 6:04am

Post #2 of 38 (1308 views)
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That's surprising. [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely would have thought it would be more like FOTR due to its obvious similarities. But i'm not complaining. Loved ROTK

All these positive reviews of 48fps have me seriously considering my decision to see it in 24fps first. Ahhhh!! Don't know what to do!


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Nov 30 2012, 6:06am

Post #3 of 38 (1242 views)
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That's how I'll probably feel... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He said the only complaint was now he had seen HFR 3D he never wanted to see a movie any other way.


...especially since The Hobbit will be my first ever theater experience Smile


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 30 2012, 6:20am

Post #4 of 38 (1178 views)
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Surprising [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont know what other ppl think but the most like of mine is TTT. I'm fine with AUJ looks more like ROTK than FOTR.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Grey Havens


Nov 30 2012, 6:21am

Post #5 of 38 (1244 views)
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Same boat... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been very adamant about seeing it in 24fps 2D first. But the 48fps has been getting so many good reviews from those at the screening. If the consensus continues to be so positive about it, I may reconsider (especially looking at those shots in the latest tv spot - those should look breathtaking in 3D!).

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


jtarkey
Rohan


Nov 30 2012, 6:28am

Post #6 of 38 (1198 views)
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Im in the opposite boat... [In reply to] Can't Post

I regretted buying HFR 3D tickets. It didn't help that everyone I bought tickets for was pissed because they didn't want their first impression to be ruined

hopefully I'll get to shove it in their faces after the movie Cool

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


jtarkey
Rohan


Nov 30 2012, 6:44am

Post #7 of 38 (1170 views)
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And i just have to add... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sooooo happy that people are saying it feels just like LOTR. So many sequels/prequels that are made many years after the originals get the tone and spirit completley wrong (I'm looking at you George lucas)

I'm officially ready to return to middle earth.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 30 2012, 6:54am

Post #8 of 38 (1144 views)
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But should "The Hobbit" feel like "The Lord of the Rings"? [In reply to] Can't Post

The books feel quite different in many ways. For instance, to take a minor point, you indicate you're "ready to return to Middle-earth", but remember that the name "Middle-earth" never appears in The Hobbit. (Neither does the "Shire", by the way.) It has long been clear that the filmmakers intended to strongly play up the connections between Tolkien's two different works, but in doing so, there may be a case to be made that they indeed, as you say of the later Star Wars films, "get the tone and spirit [of the book] completely wrong".

Well, I won't be able to judge for myself for another couple weeks, of course.

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Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 30 2012, 7:25am

Post #9 of 38 (1091 views)
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To be fair... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien himself wanted to revise The Hobbit after he published LOTR so it would fit with the mythology he had created (when he wrote TH it was still in an early phase).

It was never going to be practical to film The Hobbit without making it compatable with LOTR. But that doesn't mean the spirit of the book will be compromised.... it still looks like a light-hearted adventure story, where LOTR was decidedly darker and more serious in tone.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 30 2012, 8:01am

Post #10 of 38 (1014 views)
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Could you expand on what he meant by "shot in the style of"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does he mean it's visually similar to ROTK, or the structure of both films are similar?

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Elthir
Gondor

Nov 30 2012, 8:07am

Post #11 of 38 (1008 views)
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Yet Tolkien... [In reply to] Can't Post

... also abandoned this version very early on, seemingly agreeing with the advice of someone still unknown...


Quote

'According to Christopher Tolkien, when his father had reached this point in the book he loaned the material to a friend to get an outside opinion on it. We do not know this person's identity, but apparently her response was something along the lines of 'this is wonderful, but it's not The Hobbit.' She must have been someone whose judgement Tolkien respected, for he abanoned the work and decided to let The Hobbit retain its own autonomy and voice rather than completely incorporate it into The Lord of the Rings as a lesser 'prelude' to the greater work.'

The History of The Hobbit, the 1960 Hobbit, John Rateliff




If you mean the 1960 Hobbit that is Smile



(This post was edited by Elthir on Nov 30 2012, 8:11am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 30 2012, 8:11am

Post #12 of 38 (1038 views)
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God, I hope not. The trailers certainly don't suggest as much. [In reply to] Can't Post

I know some of you will disagree, but I hope Peter hasn't gone over board with the gore and grimness. The film should be similar to fellowship, but with the lighter tone of the first half to the first 2/3rds of that movie. It should certainly not have the tone or feel (let alone the gore) of ROTK. I hope Peter has not decided to ignore the fact that lots of people under 12 will be seeing these films, just because of what they are and what they are based upon. A tone like the first two thirds of Fellowship seems like a happy medium between those who want a graphic battle documentary, and those who expect a reasonably family friendly film.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Nov 30 2012, 8:57am

Post #13 of 38 (942 views)
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What exactly does that mean? [In reply to] Can't Post

All the LotR films were shot in the same way.

Could you elaborate?

* crunch *


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 30 2012, 9:29am

Post #14 of 38 (899 views)
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Same boat [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I definitely would have thought it would be more like FOTR due to its obvious similarities. But i'm not complaining. Loved ROTK

All these positive reviews of 48fps have me seriously considering my decision to see it in 24fps first. Ahhhh!! Don't know what to do!


I'm in the same boat. But I don't really care because I will be seeing it in 48fps the day after I see it in 24fps.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 30 2012, 9:34am

Post #15 of 38 (900 views)
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THIS [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sooooo happy that people are saying it feels just like LOTR. So many sequels/prequels that are made many years after the originals get the tone and spirit completley wrong (I'm looking at you George lucas)

I'm officially ready to return to middle earth.


^^^^^THIS ^^^^THIS ^^^^^THIS 1,000xTHIS^^^^

THAT is exactly what has been my biggest concern for the film. I would say that it mostly has to do with visual/aesthetic continuity (CGI, SFX, Art design).

I'm not expecting the tone to be the same. Honestly, each of the LOTR films had a different tone. But each of them felt like they were a part of the same universe and series, and that's what I want the hobbit to feel like when I see it.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 30 2012, 9:56am

Post #16 of 38 (871 views)
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That's a good question [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The books feel quite different in many ways. For instance, to take a minor point, you indicate you're "ready to return to Middle-earth", but remember that the name "Middle-earth" never appears in The Hobbit. (Neither does the "Shire", by the way.) It has long been clear that the filmmakers intended to strongly play up the connections between Tolkien's two different works, but in doing so, there may be a case to be made that they indeed, as you say of the later Star Wars films, "get the tone and spirit [of the book] completely wrong".

Well, I won't be able to judge for myself for another couple weeks, of course.


Whether or not it "Should" feel like the same middle-earth is really not something that anyone can answer, in my opinion. One person could say it "should" be directed specific to the individual book, which would mean making it like Tolkien wrote it as if it had no place within the greater universe of Middle-earth at the time. And someone else could argue that it should be made as if it does have the connection to the rest of middle-earth because that's part of tolkien's universe.

IMO, you can't really get a definitive answer.

But you can get a definitive answer as to whether or not you (or anyone) "want" them to feel the same or different.

Personally, I want it to feel like it's part of the larger scope of Middle-earth (even if the appendices weren't included).

But mainly from a movie standpoint, I want it to maintain a similar visual continuity because it's part of PJ's series of adaptation. That's why I didn't like the idea of someone else directing it because I want it to feel like it's part of the same world that PJ presented.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


jtarkey
Rohan


Nov 30 2012, 10:41am

Post #17 of 38 (879 views)
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I feel (IMO) that it should definetly feel like LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

The film makers cannot ignore the previous films they made. They've stated clearly that they shot the films as prequels. At this point, the relationship between The Hobbit and LOTR as Tolkien wrote them is moot. They could not have made a straight forward adaptation of The Hobbit without the general audience saying "Ummm so this is kind of Lord of the Rings but it kind of isn't???" It would have been extremely confusing.

Obviously the tone is going to be lighter, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't feel like LOTR. If PJ wants to make a complete 6 film saga, he needs to stay true to what he already established, something that George Lucas did not do.

Therefor, if he stayed totally true to the book, and ignored HIS films, he would make the same mistake as George (who, lets face it, seemed to pretty much ignore everything that made his first trilogy a success)

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


totoro
Lorien

Nov 30 2012, 10:43am

Post #18 of 38 (835 views)
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I would have been happy with GDT... [In reply to] Can't Post

... taking TH in a new direction. I am also quite happy to have PJ take the film in the same direction as LotR.
Don't worry. In 15 years, they will all be remade. Wink


The Preciousss
Bree

Nov 30 2012, 11:34am

Post #19 of 38 (791 views)
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I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... taking TH in a new direction. I am also quite happy to have PJ take the film in the same direction as LotR.
Don't worry. In 15 years, they will all be remade. Wink


Maybe we will one day get an ultimate edition with all deleted scenes added to the extended editions, but I don't think that we will see another adaption in the next 30-50 years (if humanity makes it that far;))


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 30 2012, 11:57am

Post #20 of 38 (790 views)
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thats very encouraging news, [In reply to] Can't Post

ROTK is my favourite film ever. Stunningly beautiful and moving beyond anything I have ever seen, just glad to go back. Like an old friend returned after many years.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 30 2012, 12:34pm

Post #21 of 38 (728 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... taking TH in a new direction. I am also quite happy to have PJ take the film in the same direction as LotR.
Don't worry. In 15 years, they will all be remade. Wink


It's just that I would have rather seen him have his own take on his own unique version of Middle Earth rather than have his take on Middle Earth that is based upon PJ's adaptation.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


ForestPark
Rivendell


Nov 30 2012, 1:02pm

Post #22 of 38 (700 views)
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Me too 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

2030 LOTR Justin Beiber's come back in a breakthrough dramatic role as Aragorn and Sir Adam Sandler as Gandalf. Now of course with advances in genetics we might have real hobbits and such.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 30 2012, 3:03pm

Post #23 of 38 (631 views)
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I find this strange [In reply to] Can't Post

because the entire LOTR trilogy was all shot at once, in the same style.


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 30 2012, 3:12pm

Post #24 of 38 (597 views)
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Color Grading [In reply to] Can't Post

Is what I assume they're talking about. Fellowship was pretty heavily graded compared to other 2001 era films (the only other comparisons I think would be O'Brother Where Art Tho and The matrix) but the sequels took it further every time. You'll notice most of TT is cold and blue, and most of Rotk (Besides Frodo & Sam's journy post-crossroads) has a regal, golden tinge to it.

I'm assuming that's what the reviewer is talking about, the heavily graded images that "feel" like Middle Earth because they look different from other movies.

If we want to get technical, RotK also featured a lot of extreme closeups, right in Sam and Frodo's face (FotR is mostly "medium" closeups) and featured more wonky camera work: scenes shot with crooked horizons (FotR does this some, especially with the Nazgul scenes) and elaborate camera movements during shots (whereas FotR features more static shots).

I was also assuming AUJ would feel more like FotR, but just because Peter has 11 more years of experience under his belt, we're probably going to see more complicated camera movements and surreal moments (I'm thinking of the shot of Gandalf in the tree with the camera circling him, a la Transformers). So I guess that makes sense.

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 30 2012, 3:43pm

Post #25 of 38 (589 views)
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An explanation for difference in style [In reply to] Can't Post

It's easy to forget that these movies were not, in fact, all shot at once.

They did multiple weeks of pick-up shooting every year, once Pete was in the editing room and realized that they needed another scene, or a better take, or more shots of something. They talk about it in the appendices. One example that comes to my head is, in the original shoot in 1999-2000, when Frodo tells Same to "go home" he's almost shouting and visibly psychotic. When they went to edit in early 2003, Pete realized this just didn't feel right, and they reshot the scene with a colder, calmer, Frodo.

I only ever noticed the difference in style this past year, when me and my buddies watched the Tolkien Twelve. Seeing all the movies back to back, you can definitely see the style of camerawork change. Not to mention the color shifts from green-gold throughout the trilogy.

On a related note, after it being pointed out on these forums, I now notice the green tint to the FotR EE Bluray. And now I can't STOP seeing it Pirate hahaha but even if you watch the dvd's there is a slight green, gritty tent to the movie (in some scenes more than others) as opposed to a regular, natural white balance. (Again, if you don't believe me, watch the appendices, there's footage of the colorists doing their work. it's really cool stuff if you're into photography/cinematography!)

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."

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