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Balrog of Moria? Do the swirling flames behind Thorin at what appears to be The East Moria Gate herald a Demon of Might?

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 30 2012, 9:21am


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Balrog of Moria? Do the swirling flames behind Thorin at what appears to be The East Moria Gate herald a Demon of Might? Can't Post

Its an epic shot. I have long wandered, if the Azanulbizar battle were indeed to be included (as it now almost certainly is) how they could do anything other than give The Balrog of Moria his proper and due allusion, at the least. It seemed most likely and fitting that the dwarves would have their victory, and then a leader among them (be it Thrain, Thorin or Dain) would stand near the Moria gate (as Thorin seems to be doing in this spectacular shot) and declare victory, only to be overshadowed, literally and figuratively by the coming or hinted coming of Durin's Bane. I know some have said the Balrog should be entirely saved for first mentioning and glimpsing in Fellowship, but that means re-writing the history of The Battle, of Moria, and of The Dwarves as a people. That seems far too high a price for the trivial and somewhat gimmicky goal of saving a surprise monster for later in the series, even aside from the fact that connection and prior mention in the earlier work would only serve to build the terror and legend of The Demon Thane.

The Flame, seemingly swirling out of The East Moria Gate behind Thorin, makes me wonder all the more. Peter would really have to go out of the way NOT to give some allusion to The Balrog, primarily because the only way around the demon is to either re-write the history of the war so that the dwarves were defeated by The Orcs, as opposed to having won an overwhelmingly decisive victory in which not a single orc/goblin remained alive on the field, or some other reason for the dwarves winning a great victory and then stopping short of reclaiming their most ancient and mighty Fatherland, would need to be invented, and both of those deviations are appallingly disgusting.

Everyone who has read the material thoroughly knows why the dwarves did not and could not retake Moria, even after having wreaked a devastating vanquishing upon the goblin host. The reason was The Balrog, the same Being that had driven them from Khazad-Dum and into exile to begin with. Thrain wanted to reclaim Khazad-Dum after the victory against the goblin/orc hordes, but the other dwarves knew better, and Dain, who had beheld The Balrog and had come back from the gate grey with terror, expressly told Thrain what awaited them, ready and willing to slay another Heir of Durin, and that The Dwarves would not walk in Moria until some other Power came, and The World changed. It is, among other things, some of the best foreshadowing in the series.

But there we have it. We have heard no word of The Balrog being involved, and yet without his presence and at least tacit, potential involvement, there is no explaining the dwarven host forgoing the chance to reclaim Moria without re-writing and savaging the entire history of that war and of The Dwarven People (and The History of Third Age in the process). Is the fire behind Thorin a first cue that we will see Durin's Bane after all?

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Nov 30 2012, 9:25am)

Subject User Time
Balrog of Moria? Do the swirling flames behind Thorin at what appears to be The East Moria Gate herald a Demon of Might? AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 9:21am
    Where on earth are you seeing this footage from? Crunchable Birdses Send a private message to Crunchable Birdses Nov 30 2012, 9:24am
        You have to go through all the essentially bootleg load ups of recent tv ads AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 9:29am
            Ah yes, I see now Crunchable Birdses Send a private message to Crunchable Birdses Nov 30 2012, 9:40am
                Thing is, leaving Him out makes no real sense AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 9:42am
                    Just more Orcs would do a similar job. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 30 2012, 10:15am
                        I hope we get a small glimpse of the Balrog jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Nov 30 2012, 10:52am
                            Guess I have to do a reread, The Preciousss Send a private message to The Preciousss Nov 30 2012, 11:18am
                                Ooh no Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 30 2012, 11:26am
                            I think so. I think if they play it right, the victory, beyond hope, over Smaug, will AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 10:28pm
                        No. If it were just a matter of more orcs, the Dwarves simply wouldn't have won the battle. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 10:53pm
                            I don't follow. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Dec 1 2012, 12:15am
                                It isn't personal. Go back and read the appendix on Durin's folk. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 1 2012, 2:37am
                                    I didn't think it was personal. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Dec 1 2012, 10:46am
                                        Possible and proper are two different things entirely. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 1 2012, 8:07pm
                                            About the movie FOTR (spoiler)- Hanzkaz Dec 2 2012, 7:09am
                                                Yes. In the books The Wise only knew that "A Terror" dwelt there, and many of the Elves of Lothlorien AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 2 2012, 8:26am
                                                    But I believe the wise were aware of the full nature of the Balrog chazychris Send a private message to chazychris Dec 2 2012, 9:15am
                                        Lacrimae, I was looking over that part of the Appendecies again AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 2 2012, 11:45pm
                                            Absolutely Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Dec 4 2012, 11:03am
    For reference. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 30 2012, 9:35am
        Thanks for the comparison shot. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 9:40am
        Since the fire is indeed spreading beyond the gate... waaimasjien Send a private message to waaimasjien Nov 30 2012, 9:42am
        awesome robmlisanti Send a private message to robmlisanti Nov 30 2012, 7:00pm
    It best be ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 30 2012, 9:39am
    How I think it should be done. Azaghâl Send a private message to Azaghâl Nov 30 2012, 11:42am
        Thought Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 30 2012, 11:58am
            i wonder... lidlessEye Send a private message to lidlessEye Nov 30 2012, 12:03pm
            THIS!!! jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Nov 30 2012, 12:11pm
        Me likey redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Nov 30 2012, 12:42pm
            Dain Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 30 2012, 12:46pm
                Would be a shame if he wasn't there. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 30 2012, 1:57pm
                    I very much hope he is in Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 30 2012, 1:59pm
        I'll put my life savings on the Balrog turning up...but not on screen Kendalf Send a private message to Kendalf Nov 30 2012, 4:25pm
    That`s not Balrog little mouse Send a private message to little mouse Nov 30 2012, 1:26pm
    I hope not. The Balrog should be woken up by the presence of Gandalf (in FOTR) and the rising power of the Ring. xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Nov 30 2012, 2:51pm
        then might've overread your book... lidlessEye Send a private message to lidlessEye Nov 30 2012, 3:59pm
            No, you have to refer to the movies, not the book. Movies first, book second. xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Dec 1 2012, 1:14am
    I hope so! Arthael Send a private message to Arthael Nov 30 2012, 4:31pm
    I hope Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 30 2012, 8:45pm
        I wouldn't want the 'surprise' - Hanzkaz Nov 30 2012, 9:28pm
            I forget how it's explained in the book Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 30 2012, 9:31pm
                It isn't really explained in the text. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 30 2012, 9:47pm
                    Thanks for the refresher. Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 30 2012, 10:05pm
                        It's not really a question prompted by the text in all fairness. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 30 2012, 10:35pm
                            I expect Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 30 2012, 11:03pm
            I think(responding to Adamire as well) an earlier poster had it best. The shadow, flame and burning eyes AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 11:14pm
                Yes, but the sound matters just as much Kendalf Send a private message to Kendalf Nov 30 2012, 11:56pm
                    Though Tolkien always portrayed The Balrog as the strong silent type. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 1 2012, 1:51am
                You know what... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 1 2012, 1:16am
                    *agreement hug* AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 1 2012, 2:39am
            Several things could be at play. The Greatest of The Seven Rings not least among them. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 30 2012, 11:19pm
            Just clarified this for myself. Balin almost certainly thought The Ring (Durin's Ring) was in Moria. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Dec 2 2012, 11:50pm

 
 
 

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