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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Production video #9: what bird is that?
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Demosthenes
Sr. Staff


Nov 25 2012, 3:08pm

Post #26 of 52 (562 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole point of the article was that it /wasn't/ a hummingbird, but could be a thrush.

I still think this could be a pointer for Erebor and that there will be a thrush On The Doorstep.

Regardless we'll know for certain in a couple of weeks, because Elrond will either mention the thrush when he deciphers the map ... or he won't.

TheOneRing.net Senior Staff
IRC Admin and Hall of Fire moderator


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 3:09pm

Post #27 of 52 (564 views)
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Hummingbirds are very American [In reply to] Can't Post

while thrushes are cosmopolitan (and more generic). We of course can always say "Númenorians did it!", but the general audience might be buzzled by a non-Old World animal in a supposedly Medieval fantasy world.

Btw, does anyone still remember the "what animal is accompanying Radagast in the concept art seen in a vlog?" discussion? Many suspected it was a vallaby, and questions arose of whether this would be accpetable or not. Well, the same concept art was seen in high-res in the leaked Hobbit art book scans... and the animal was one his giant rabbits.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 3:10pm

Post #28 of 52 (551 views)
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Too small and too delicate. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Finrod
Rohan


Nov 25 2012, 3:15pm

Post #29 of 52 (551 views)
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Reminds me of a redwing, too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've never seen an American Robin in flesh, only European thruses; mostly blackbirds, song thruses and redwings. The bird in the trailer immediately reminded me of a redwing, expect that redwings have red only on their sides, not extending over their belly.


I, also, thought of a (European) redwing, as that has the right size and shape, although not quite the right color breast. But individual turdids have quite a bit of variation in the spottiness. Even an American Robin has a spotty breast as a young bird, which fills out as it matures.

Be warned that like robin, the common names redwing and even blackbird, do mean something else in North America than they do in Europe.

In North America, the most likely thrush you’ll find hovering is Swainson’s Thrush or one of the Bluebirds.

Here is a decent comparative view of a bunch of members of the Turdidae family.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 25 2012, 3:15pm

Post #30 of 52 (552 views)
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Art [In reply to] Can't Post

To be strict about it, it's not any type of bird--it's a CG creation. So you're probably right; it could well be an imaginary amalgamation of various thrushes that looks (to me) very much like an American Robin, aside from being a little smaller than normal and not moving correctly (and I accept your point about the tail length upon careful inspection). I guess if they did it right, everyone will see the type of thrush that's most familiar to him.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 25 2012, 3:16pm

Post #31 of 52 (559 views)
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I hope the talking purse hasn't replaced the thrush! [In reply to] Can't Post

Though it might make sense ... At least everyone can talk to it then ...Unimpressed

"Stand by the grey stone when the purse squeaks, and the setting sun with the last light will shine on Durin's Day will shine upon the key-hole"

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Nov 25 2012, 3:17pm)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 3:21pm

Post #32 of 52 (547 views)
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Damn pioneers and their lack of imagination [In reply to] Can't Post

while naming the new animals they encountered!

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 25 2012, 3:37pm

Post #33 of 52 (547 views)
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Without knowing anything else [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have said this looks like what I see most days in the backyard, an American robin. The yellow beak and subtle white markings around the eye make that particularly obvious (and the red breast, of course). But I did not know robins were considered thrushes before this discussion, so it makes more sense now.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery

(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Nov 25 2012, 3:37pm)


Finrod
Rohan


Nov 25 2012, 3:42pm

Post #34 of 52 (549 views)
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A Turdid Tale [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would have said this looks like what I see most days in the backyard, an American robin. The yellow beak and subtle white markings around the eye make that particularly obvious (and the red breast, of course). But I did not know robins were considered thrushes before this discussion, so it makes more sense now.


Thrushes are members of the Turdidae family, one of whose genera is Turdus, which comprises the true thrushes and of which the American Robin is just one example out of 65. Even bluebirds are thrushes (read, from the same family), although of a different genus.

But Turdus migratorius is too big to hover, and his tail is too long to be this bird.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 25 2012, 3:43pm

Post #35 of 52 (536 views)
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It gets even more complicated [In reply to] Can't Post

with European robins, who used to be considered thrushes, until they got thrown out of the family (probably for being drunk and disorderly).

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Demosthenes
Sr. Staff


Nov 25 2012, 3:50pm

Post #36 of 52 (534 views)
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BAM! [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM_dTFMTvzk

TheOneRing.net Senior Staff
IRC Admin and Hall of Fire moderator


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 25 2012, 4:25pm

Post #37 of 52 (504 views)
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No - purses can't fly.... [In reply to] Can't Post

..... unless this is an exotic species of purse. The New Zealand white-throated (I made that bit up) flying purse, perhaps.....


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 5:11pm

Post #38 of 52 (497 views)
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And prone to vigilantism with emo bats [In reply to] Can't Post

against corrupt sherifs.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


hamlet
Rivendell


Nov 25 2012, 5:13pm

Post #39 of 52 (496 views)
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Holy Ornithology! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the bird info. And I love the fact that "the lover of birds" connection has been made with Radagast. Cool.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 25 2012, 5:31pm

Post #40 of 52 (500 views)
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Ah yes, that looks more like it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Similar coloring to the American Robin, but different body type. But in looking at bird sites, I see that there are actually quite a few species of thrush with red breasts from around the world.

All of this makes me hope that the Lonely Mountain thrush is not of this type, as we can see that many people would see the movie and think "robin" instead of "thrush". I know that robins are in the thrush family, but most people think of them as distinct and in their own category.

I know when I read the book, I always pictured the Lonely Mountain bird as something like the Song Thrush, with a streaked breast instead of a red one.

Silverlode






Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 25 2012, 5:36pm

Post #41 of 52 (485 views)
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That's a European robin, Dem! [In reply to] Can't Post

American robins are larger, and too heavy to hover. Smile

Silverlode






DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 25 2012, 5:37pm

Post #42 of 52 (470 views)
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Yes, I too imagined the Thrush as a Song Bird [In reply to] Can't Post

And Song Birds are commonly known to eat snails, compared to other species of Thrush.

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Finrod
Rohan


Nov 25 2012, 5:46pm

Post #43 of 52 (471 views)
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Song Thrush, not Song Bird [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And Song Birds are commonly known to eat snails, compared to other species of Thrush.


Um, don’t you mean Song Thrush, not Song Bird? A songbird is a somewhat generic term. Here’s your thrush:
The Song Thrush (Turdus philomelos) is a thrush that breeds across much of Eurasia. It is also known in English dialects as throstle or mavis. It has brown upperparts and black-spotted cream or buff underparts and has three recognised subspecies. Its distinctive song, which has repeated musical phrases, has frequently been referred to in poetry.


…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 5:46pm

Post #44 of 52 (465 views)
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Oooh, that could be it! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 25 2012, 5:48pm

Post #45 of 52 (461 views)
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Yes. Thank you for the correction. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Nov 25 2012, 5:54pm

Post #46 of 52 (471 views)
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Sort of hovering (American robin)... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://fahrmannphoto.photoshelter.com/image/I0000nE5OUGknTkY

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Nov 25 2012, 10:46pm

Post #47 of 52 (441 views)
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Quite likely too, since that is how Tolkien describes it... [In reply to] Can't Post

"an enormous thrush, nearly coal black, its pale yellow breast freckled with dark spots"

Michael Martinez has a great article on Tolkien's thrush here


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 25 2012, 11:11pm

Post #48 of 52 (425 views)
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Interesting article.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... thanks for the link!


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 26 2012, 2:15am

Post #49 of 52 (400 views)
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All this talk about birds... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bridgekeeper: What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
King Arthur: What do you mean? An African or European swallow?
Bridgekeeper: Huh? I... I don't know that. Auuuuuuuugh!
Sir Bedevere: How do know so much about swallows?
King Arthur: Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Nov 26 2012, 2:29am

Post #50 of 52 (395 views)
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The swallow may fly south with the sun, [In reply to] Can't Post

or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter yet these are not strangers to our land."

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.
"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

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