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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Wizards

iandea14
Rivendell


Nov 24 2012, 4:57pm

Post #1 of 9 (260 views)
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Wizards Can't Post

How many wizards are there?


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 24 2012, 5:04pm

Post #2 of 9 (141 views)
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Millions! [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you mean in Middle-earth, in which case, there are only 5 (assuming Tolkien never thought there were more members of the Istari).

We have:

Olorin - Gandalf
Curumo -Saruman
Aiwendil - Radagast
Alatar and Pallando (Blue Wizards)


Smile

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Magpie
Immortal


Nov 24 2012, 5:38pm

Post #3 of 9 (176 views)
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well... let me see... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wizards of the Coast, Mr. Wizard (the tv scientist), Mr. Wizard ("Drizzle, drazzle, druzzle, drome, time for this one to come home.") Ralph Bakshi's Wizards, Wizard of Oz, Wizards of Waverly Place, Thomas Edison (the Wizard of Menlo Park), Merlin, Harry Potter, Dumbledore, Harry Dresden, and the Wizard of Id.

Just to name a few and get the list started.

:-)


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Elthir
Gondor

Nov 25 2012, 12:27am

Post #4 of 9 (134 views)
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I would say in Middle-earth... [In reply to] Can't Post

... we have five.

In one text (published in Unfinished Tales) Tolkien implies there may be more, but I think the evidence as a whole points to five rather.

Alatar and Pallando are possible Quenya names for the 'other two', but they are not the only names for these wizards that Tolkien had considered in his draft notes. I'm also not sure Tolkien ultimately imagined any 'Blue Wizards' -- again this was true of the other two Istari at one point, but a later letter seems to suggest that they had no colours, or that no colours were known anyway.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Nov 25 2012, 12:29am)


Ethel Duath
Valinor


Nov 25 2012, 3:42am

Post #5 of 9 (109 views)
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"If ever-a-wever" :D [In reply to] Can't Post

So why don't more Tolkien fans that are programmers name their computer wizards after those 5? My brother managed to change the default message on my old VIAO computer from "Valued SONY cusotmer" to "Despised SONY customer" when I suggested it was more realistic.Angelic

I think we should all do the same, only rename everything after Maiar of various types (hmm I sense a contest coming on. Computer Parts Naming Challenge! "Balrog BIos." "Radagast RAM." "Morgoth Motherboard.")

After all, one of the early home computers was called called an Istari. Or something. Wink


sherlock
Gondor


Nov 25 2012, 11:05am

Post #6 of 9 (89 views)
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Why don't the blue wizards have two names? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe they are not important enough.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 25 2012, 11:12am

Post #7 of 9 (87 views)
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They do, I just could t remember them. [In reply to] Can't Post

Here they are:

Rómestámo and Morinehtar

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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2012, 1:44pm

Post #8 of 9 (80 views)
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5 that we know of [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey/White, Radagast the Brown, Alatar the Blue and Pallando the Blue. Of these five we're told about.

We're not entirely sure what the Istari are. Oh, we do know that they're Maiar spirits, sent by the Valar from the Undying Lands to help the free peoples of Middle-Earth in their struggle against Sauron. But was the Istari order founded for this particular purpose, and these five (chosen!) volunteers are its sole members? Or was the Istari order something that already existed, and the volunteers to help M-E were simply chosen from it?

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Elthir
Gondor

Nov 25 2012, 4:16pm

Post #9 of 9 (150 views)
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The names of the other two... [In reply to] Can't Post

... again I don't call them the Blue Wizards as Tolkien seems to later doubt that they had distinctive colours (letter 211).

But Rómestámo, Morinehtar, Rómestar, Alatar, Pallando -- are all Quenya, which to my mind suggests that they are external variations (Tolkien trying to come up with a Quenya name for each wizard), instead of internal variations, like the names of Gandalf in various languages, from various places.


There's also a notable gap in years between the text with the names Alatar and Pallando -- and the other three names, and Christopher Tolkien implies that his father possibly could not find the earlier text -- which might mean he couldn't remember the earlier names, and so he invented new ones.

So Olorin/Gandalf is not the same (in my opinion) as these alternate draft names for the other two wizards -- which look to me more like Tolkien trying to invent a Quenya name for each wizard at different points in the external timeline.

 
 

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