Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Could PJ kill off Radagast?
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

chris10112
Bree

Nov 24 2012, 4:28pm

Post #1 of 33 (1306 views)
Shortcut
Could PJ kill off Radagast? Can't Post

I mean, God forbid, but do we know if he's in TDOS or TABA? If not, surely the last appearance we know of is the spider attack. He's not at Rivendell.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 24 2012, 4:31pm

Post #2 of 33 (747 views)
Shortcut
Many have speculated so [In reply to] Can't Post

Including myself. And I wouldn't be surprise if he dies. I'd prefer that he didn't, but I can see it happening.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 24 2012, 4:32pm

Post #3 of 33 (721 views)
Shortcut
I'm assuming he will. [In reply to] Can't Post

But not in AUJ.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Nov 24 2012, 4:36pm

Post #4 of 33 (702 views)
Shortcut
but... [In reply to] Can't Post

doesnt he appear after the hobbit in the fellowship as told in backstory?

for quickbeam often laughed, he laughed if the sun came out from behind a cloud, he laughed if they came upon a stream or spring:


Lightice
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 4:36pm

Post #5 of 33 (706 views)
Shortcut
Doubtful [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I mean, God forbid, but do we know if he's in TDOS or TABA? If not, surely the last appearance we know of is the spider attack. He's not at Rivendell.


It's possible but quite improbable. Killing him off would serve no purpose or function in the story. Only poor filmmakers resort to killing off characters for brief shock value.

It's far more likely that Radagast will simply shuffle off when it comes to the big showdown. He was described as bit of a coward by Tolkien, and his departure would simply hasten his canonical exit from all stories with a few decades. I imagine that we will be left with an impression that he's still keeping an eye out for things from a safe distance, and is the link between the moth and Gwahir in the LotR-trilogy.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 24 2012, 4:37pm

Post #6 of 33 (678 views)
Shortcut
Not in the films. He appears in FOTR book. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



chris10112
Bree

Nov 24 2012, 4:39pm

Post #7 of 33 (678 views)
Shortcut
That old trope [In reply to] Can't Post

Possibly. Though I think a situation of him being captured after the spider attack and killed later on by the Necromancer in front of Gandalf/WC is something that could viably happen to demonstrate the nastiness of Sauron (or one of his minions)


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 24 2012, 4:43pm

Post #8 of 33 (662 views)
Shortcut
There was an interesting discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Here. There are some interesting pieces of speculation. You might find the thread interesting.

Smile

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



chris10112
Bree

Nov 24 2012, 4:44pm

Post #9 of 33 (641 views)
Shortcut
Ta, fella [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 24 2012, 5:12pm

Post #10 of 33 (640 views)
Shortcut
It's not about shock value... [In reply to] Can't Post

...It would probably have a connection to Saruman's treason, and likely set up his betrayal of Gandalf in FOTR.

PJ has shown himself to be a master of the sad death scene (Gandalf, Borimir, Theoden). I'm sure I'll choke up if and when it goes down.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


T_Meyers
Bree

Nov 24 2012, 5:26pm

Post #11 of 33 (618 views)
Shortcut
If he dies... [In reply to] Can't Post

...in AUJ then how can he rally the troops of birds and beasts in TDOS? I suspect he'll die at some later part of TDOS or TABA. It would be a good tail end to show Saruman over his listless body with the proverbial "bloody knife".

http://www.wattpad.com/user/t_meyers


Plurmo
Rohan

Nov 24 2012, 6:55pm

Post #12 of 33 (536 views)
Shortcut
All we know by now is that Radagast's sled bunnies were cooked by Sam.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Lightice
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 7:27pm

Post #13 of 33 (537 views)
Shortcut
Even more unlikely [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...It would probably have a connection to Saruman's treason, and likely set up his betrayal of Gandalf in FOTR.


The movies are intended as a prequel, something that you can watch before the LotR-trilogy and for the most part enjoy the continuous tale. Saruman's betrayal in the FotR would lose its effectiveness if he was given a huge neon sign saying "BAD GUY" over his head, like that.

What would Saruman's motive be for such an action, in any case? In the films' continuity Saruman's reason for siding with Sauron was that he thought Sauron's victory was inevitable and wanted to be on the winning side. No such thing comes yet apparent in The Hobbit, the opposite, in fact.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Nov 24 2012, 7:43pm

Post #14 of 33 (525 views)
Shortcut
PJ will probably choose to kill him off, but almost certainly not in film 1 [In reply to] Can't Post

He could provide a more subtle reason as to why the Wizard wasn't in LOTR, but PJ ain't subtle, now is he? In order to spell out to a general audience why Raddy is not in LOTR, I'm pretty certain that Radagast will die in the second or possibly third film. Either that or become the moth.

Now, if he dies it's unlikely to be in film 3, as (spoilers) the main death in film 3 will be Thorin's, as well as the side deaths of Fili and Kili. Having Rad die as well would detract from the emotion of these other deaths. If however he was killed in film 1 we wouldn't be very upset as we would barely know the guy. Therefore, if he's to die then it must surely be in film 2, perhaps he is killed in the Battle of Dol Guldur, giving Gandalf a larger motive than ever to succeed in his mission of bringing about Sauron's fall.

I'm also on the same wavelength as the author of the essay posted a few days ago (i.e. Raddy could be secretly dealt with by agents of Saruman, with his death symbolizing the beginning of darker times and the end of innocence).

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 24 2012, 8:08pm

Post #15 of 33 (526 views)
Shortcut
I don't see why Saruman's betrayal should be a surprise in FOTR... [In reply to] Can't Post

...If anything, any newcomer watching the Hobbit films prior to LOTR will feel a great amount of suspense during the betrayal scene.

Also, in the books Saruman was more interested in finding the ring for himself than allying with Sauron simply because he thinks it's a good idea. I think Saruman's search for the ring (even though the ring itself will remain a secret) will give his character a secretive dark angle that no one else in the Council can figure out (after all, Saruman has to have a reason for not wanting to attack Dol Guildur). Radagast could stumble on his plot to find the ring, decides to warn Gandalf, but Saruman silences him before he can do so.

This would give Gandalf's realization in FOTR emotional depth, as he would also realize Saruman was responsible for Radagast's death.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Nov 24 2012, 8:17pm

Post #16 of 33 (485 views)
Shortcut
Visuals [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...If anything, any newcomer watching the Hobbit films prior to LOTR will feel a great amount of suspense during the betrayal scene.

Also, in the books Saruman was more interested in finding the ring for himself than allying with Sauron simply because he thinks it's a good idea. I think Saruman's search for the ring (even though the ring itself will remain a secret) will give his character a secretive dark angle that no one else in the Council can figure out (after all, Saruman has to have a reason for not wanting to attack Dol Guildur). Radagast could stumble on his plot to find the ring, decides to warn Gandalf, but Saruman silences him before he can do so.

This would give Gandalf's realization in FOTR emotional depth, as he would also realize Saruman was responsible for Radagast's death.



I'vve always thought a scene of Saruman up to his kness in the muddy waters of the Gladden Fields, with his white robes becoming dirty and discoloured would be such a great visual metaphor for the taint to his character! Cool


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Lightice
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 9:10pm

Post #17 of 33 (442 views)
Shortcut
Sorry, I don't see it [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Also, in the books Saruman was more interested in finding the ring for himself than allying with Sauron simply because he thinks it's a good idea.



I am aware, but this is not introduced in the films, so it would just add needless confusion. Saruman may express unhealthy interest in the One Ring, but short of declaring his intent to set himself up as the new Dark Lord, the White Council would only see him obsessing about finding the one thing that can defeat Sauron for good.

But what really bugs me about this whole hypothesis about Radagast's supposed death is just how little foundation it has within the material that we have, which is absolutely none. People simply figure out "he's not in the original trilogy, he must be dead!" It's a conclusion that makes no sense to me whatsoever. He was absent for the bulk of the books but no-one assumed that he got killed off-screen in them. There's simply no foundation whatsoever for this assumption at all. It's a piece of idle fan speculation that has somehow reached the levels canon in people's minds and I can't for the life of me comperehend why. It doesn't even make sense in the story canon: we're very clearly shown that the Istari who die in the course of their duties get resurrected until their work is done.

Repeat after me: absence of a character does not in itself imply death. It implies murder even less so; why people aren't speculating about Radagast heroically dying in the attack on Dol Guldur, for that matter? There's an equal amount of evidence to support it: none. I simply don't get why people obsess about getting Radagast killed in a pointless, humiliating way in a manner that conflicts the canon, introduces plot-holes and doesn't add anything to the story, also removing what could be an excellent retcon link to the character in the FotR through the infamous moth.

Sorry about the tirade, but people are seriously putting their cart before the horses with this speculation. It would be one thing if there was even something remotely hinting at the idea, but Sylvester McCoy has quite adamantly said that he hasn't even shot a single scene with Christopher Lee at this point. Everything speaks against the murder-theory.


Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 24 2012, 9:12pm

Post #18 of 33 (449 views)
Shortcut
He doesn't HAVE to die.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...It would just be really sad and incredibly cinematic.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien


Nov 24 2012, 10:14pm

Post #19 of 33 (421 views)
Shortcut
The theory [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the theory of Radagast's death has taken hold because it seems like something Jackson would do. It's reminiscent of Haldir's death in The Two Towers. His fate is not specified by Tolkien in the book so PJ gave him a dramatic death scene. Similarly, Radagast is said to be missing from Rhosgobel in LOTR, making his ultimate fate a mystery. Given that and Saruman's known dislike for Radagast, as well as his fall from grace which will presumably be foreshadowed in the Hobbit movies, Radagast being murdered doesn't seem that far fetched.

Personally, I would rather it not happen. It contradicts Tolkien since Radagast is mentioned and has a small role in Fellowship. Saruman going full evil that early seems wrong and would surely have been discovered by his allies. And it would be far more satisfying to connect Radagast to the moth that helps Gandalf in the movies. I'd rather it was his ally or learn that the moth IS Radagast, via being a "master of shapes and changes of hue." That was how I always interpreted that scene in my head anyway to link it more closely with events from the book.


totoro
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 10:28pm

Post #20 of 33 (430 views)
Shortcut
In my childhood [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was fun to imagine Raddy was hanging out in the woods to this day. The last of the wizards. Smile


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 24 2012, 10:35pm

Post #21 of 33 (448 views)
Shortcut
If they kill him off [In reply to] Can't Post

its a bit Game of Thrones for my liking. I like GOT but everybody I like gets slaughtered. Its annoying. Mad


totoro
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 10:36pm

Post #22 of 33 (409 views)
Shortcut
I'll not be happy if raddy is knifed [In reply to] Can't Post

The only excuse for that would be for a Boromir scene. However, I don't see how that would fit.

I think a death at the end of AUJ would be quite strange. It doesn't suit the character to die defending the party as they climb trees. And why would he sacrifice his life for dwarves when he could sacrifice it for any number of different causes that are closer to his heart. No, that doesn't make sense.

The end of TDoS is going to be a dragon slain or a dragon rampaging in a town to which Raddy has no connection. The party is in the mountain anyway. I don't think it makes sense for Raddy to die there, either.

At the end of TaBA, Thorin is already serving the role, along with the pretty dwarves. Three is already a crowd; heaping Raddy's corpse onto the bonfire does not add anything and could detract from the poignancy.

If Raddy bites it in a non-climax, that is bad, too.


totoro
Lorien

Nov 24 2012, 10:37pm

Post #23 of 33 (417 views)
Shortcut
I dislike GoT for that reason alone nt [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
its a bit Game of Thrones for my liking. I like GOT but everybody I like gets slaughtered. Its annoying. Mad



Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 24 2012, 10:42pm

Post #24 of 33 (393 views)
Shortcut
Which is why he refuses to help anyone in LotR.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 24 2012, 10:55pm

Post #25 of 33 (395 views)
Shortcut
I dont want Radagast to die either. [In reply to] Can't Post

and I have a feeling he wont.
Firstly the first film will be more lighthearted and more in keeping with the start of the book. Secondly, he is cuddly and cute, has lots of little furry animal friends, and I dont think they would want to upset kiddies for no good reason, its like killin Bambi, its just not cricket!. Laugh

There are the 'heroic' deaths of Thorin and Fili and Kili later, but I think at the beginning there wont be 'killings'. Obviously towards the end of the first film its getting hairy for the Dwarves and Bilbo, but I dont think its got dark and deadly quite yet.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.