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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Problem with Superflously Altering Azanulbizar and all that lead to it.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 23 2012, 1:32am


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The Problem with Superflously Altering Azanulbizar and all that lead to it. Can't Post

I know people have spoken on there being various changes to Dwarven history, but I think this one merits particular focus. For one thing, it is, like some of the other rumoured changes (and known past changes) from the notion of the Dunedain singlehandedly sealing away The Nazgul to the tying of Arwen's life to The Ring, entirely uncalled for, superfluous and more than a little forced (if true). It also has the effect of disrupting the entire history of events, AND of botching what was/is already an enormously effective, powerful and emotional narrative.

The Battle of Azanulbizar was fought BECAUSE of the horrific murder of Thror. The dispossessed Dwarven king was, as is known, slain by Azog in a particularly gruesome and mutilating manner, and his butchered remains further desecrated for effect. And the effect it had, when word reached his kin, was that Thrain, his son, wept and tore at his beard in grief and rage for Seven ( a relevant number) nights, and on the seventh declared that the grievance was too terrible and could not be allowed to stand. Thus began the great War of The Dwarves and Goblins/Orcs, which culminated in the Battle of Azanulbizar before the East Gate of Moria. Threre the dwarves had the indisputable victory, completely routing the goblin/orc hordeand slaying Azog. Their victory seemed so complete that Thrain deemed the time had come to retake their Fatherland of Khazad-Dum, but Dain, even as he slew Azog, glanced beyond the gate and beheld The Balrog of Moria, Bane of Durin, original banisher of The Dwarves and for a thousand years the only true Lord of Moria, and in seeing him Dain was filled with terror, and remembered and fully understood what had driven his people from Khazad-Dum in the first place, and realized why they were still in no position to reclaim it.

While most of the parts of this movie that are based primarily upon The Hobbit novel look very promising and well translated, the Appendix based backstory seems more and more troubling, NOT because Peter chose to include it (which I think was largely a good decision, and a very good idea,, Dol Guldur, Galadriel, Council, Azanulbizar et al), but because he seems determined NOT to adhere to it. Why say you are basing extra material upon The Appendices if you are actually intending to contradict virtually everything The Appendices tell you happened?

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Nov 23 2012, 1:35am)

Subject User Time
The Problem with Superflously Altering Azanulbizar and all that lead to it. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 1:32am
    Appendices Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 23 2012, 1:50am
        Agreed. That actually describes it very well, save that in some ways they have even tampered (it seems) withthe core structure. And its more than annoying AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 2:47am
            Excellent story Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 23 2012, 5:16pm
        Which is incredibly frustrating DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 23 2012, 8:42am
            That's what I'm saying Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 23 2012, 5:18pm
    I'm almost afraid to ask... Avnar Send a private message to Avnar Nov 23 2012, 3:07am
        There are lots of rumours based on comments by the film crew and in books AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 3:36am
            Why why why why?? Avnar Send a private message to Avnar Nov 23 2012, 5:41am
            These are terrible changes indeed... I'm really really saddened by them... Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Nov 23 2012, 5:50am
                I know what you mean. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 6:45am
                    That's how I feel. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 23 2012, 7:58am
                        Well stated. I completely agree. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 8:44am
            I don’t think the changes to the dwarven history will be as drastic as some fear. Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Nov 23 2012, 6:33am
                I hope you are right. N.T Avnar Send a private message to Avnar Nov 23 2012, 6:45am
                I also hope you are correct about some of this AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 6:49am
                Unfortunately it does... :-( Eleniel Send a private message to Eleniel Nov 23 2012, 8:38am
                    OK this Thrain being lost in Khazadum thing is really quite infuriating ...... sad face.. Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Nov 23 2012, 9:23am
                    If that is the only change Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Nov 23 2012, 4:40pm
                        It's not a better story Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 5:01pm
                            It is a MUCH better story. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 6:49pm
                                "goblins are not lions" Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 7:09pm
                                    Gandalf did say he pitied even Sauron's slaves. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 7:40pm
                        I am actually hoping the report I heard was wrong, but the quote AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 6:30pm
    Really? Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 7:48am
        Whatever would have been expected, it was justification, not excuse. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 8:42am
            Thror did it deliberately. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 8:49am
                Thror was half mad. His devestating circumstances and his Ring had driven him AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 9:24am
                    They would have found some other excuse. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 9:27am
                        If the dwarves could have found another excuse for starting the war... Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 23 2012, 12:24pm
                            I'm not sure it is quite as complicated as that. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 23 2012, 2:04pm
                                True, that's a possibility. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 23 2012, 2:28pm
                                This is what I would imagine. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 3:41pm
                                    That depends... Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 23 2012, 4:05pm
                                        Not me. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 23 2012, 4:12pm
                                            I think most people with beloved family and friends would understand revenge quite well AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 6:24pm
                                                AO I hate to pause you mid flow but Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 23 2012, 7:51pm
                                                    Just rumors Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Nov 23 2012, 11:34pm
                                                        Thank goodness we'll know Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 23 2012, 11:37pm
                        Begging your pardon, but they didn't get Moria back, even though they won the battle. Goblins didn't drive The Dwarves from Moria. A Balrog did. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Nov 23 2012, 5:40pm
    PJ did originally film Sauron vs Aragorn in ROTK.. irodino Send a private message to irodino Nov 23 2012, 8:21am
    Here's another likely scenario both true to the book and what we have heard so far Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 23 2012, 1:58pm
        Possible, but still not as good Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Nov 23 2012, 4:44pm

 
 
 

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