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AinurOlorin
Valinor
Nov 23 2012, 1:32am
Views: 1296
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The Problem with Superflously Altering Azanulbizar and all that lead to it.
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I know people have spoken on there being various changes to Dwarven history, but I think this one merits particular focus. For one thing, it is, like some of the other rumoured changes (and known past changes) from the notion of the Dunedain singlehandedly sealing away The Nazgul to the tying of Arwen's life to The Ring, entirely uncalled for, superfluous and more than a little forced (if true). It also has the effect of disrupting the entire history of events, AND of botching what was/is already an enormously effective, powerful and emotional narrative.
The Battle of Azanulbizar was fought BECAUSE of the horrific murder of Thror. The dispossessed Dwarven king was, as is known, slain by Azog in a particularly gruesome and mutilating manner, and his butchered remains further desecrated for effect. And the effect it had, when word reached his kin, was that Thrain, his son, wept and tore at his beard in grief and rage for Seven ( a relevant number) nights, and on the seventh declared that the grievance was too terrible and could not be allowed to stand. Thus began the great War of The Dwarves and Goblins/Orcs, which culminated in the Battle of Azanulbizar before the East Gate of Moria. Threre the dwarves had the indisputable victory, completely routing the goblin/orc hordeand slaying Azog. Their victory seemed so complete that Thrain deemed the time had come to retake their Fatherland of Khazad-Dum, but Dain, even as he slew Azog, glanced beyond the gate and beheld The Balrog of Moria, Bane of Durin, original banisher of The Dwarves and for a thousand years the only true Lord of Moria, and in seeing him Dain was filled with terror, and remembered and fully understood what had driven his people from Khazad-Dum in the first place, and realized why they were still in no position to reclaim it.
While most of the parts of this movie that are based primarily upon The Hobbit novel look very promising and well translated, the Appendix based backstory seems more and more troubling, NOT because Peter chose to include it (which I think was largely a good decision, and a very good idea,, Dol Guldur, Galadriel, Council, Azanulbizar et al), but because he seems determined NOT to adhere to it. Why say you are basing extra material upon The Appendices if you are actually intending to contradict virtually everything The Appendices tell you happened?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Nov 23 2012, 1:35am)
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Time
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The Problem with Superflously Altering Azanulbizar and all that lead to it.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 1:32am
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Appendices
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Ardamírë
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Nov 23 2012, 1:50am
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Agreed. That actually describes it very well, save that in some ways they have even tampered (it seems) withthe core structure. And its more than annoying
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 2:47am
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Excellent story
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Ardamírë
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Nov 23 2012, 5:16pm
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Which is incredibly frustrating
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DanielLB
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Nov 23 2012, 8:42am
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That's what I'm saying
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Ardamírë
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Nov 23 2012, 5:18pm
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I'm almost afraid to ask...
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Avnar
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Nov 23 2012, 3:07am
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There are lots of rumours based on comments by the film crew and in books
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 3:36am
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Why why why why??
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Avnar
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Nov 23 2012, 5:41am
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These are terrible changes indeed... I'm really really saddened by them...
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Xanaseb
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Nov 23 2012, 5:50am
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I know what you mean.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 6:45am
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That's how I feel.
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Macfeast
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Nov 23 2012, 7:58am
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Well stated. I completely agree.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 8:44am
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I don’t think the changes to the dwarven history will be as drastic as some fear.
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Bladerunner
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Nov 23 2012, 6:33am
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I hope you are right. N.T
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Avnar
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Nov 23 2012, 6:45am
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I also hope you are correct about some of this
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 6:49am
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Unfortunately it does... :-(
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Eleniel
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Nov 23 2012, 8:38am
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OK this Thrain being lost in Khazadum thing is really quite infuriating ...... sad face..
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Xanaseb
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Nov 23 2012, 9:23am
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If that is the only change
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Faenoriel
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Nov 23 2012, 4:40pm
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It's not a better story
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 5:01pm
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It is a MUCH better story.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 6:49pm
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"goblins are not lions"
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 7:09pm
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Gandalf did say he pitied even Sauron's slaves.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 7:40pm
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I am actually hoping the report I heard was wrong, but the quote
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 6:30pm
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Really?
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 7:48am
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Whatever would have been expected, it was justification, not excuse.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 8:42am
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Thror did it deliberately.
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 8:49am
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Thror was half mad. His devestating circumstances and his Ring had driven him
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 9:24am
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They would have found some other excuse.
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 9:27am
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If the dwarves could have found another excuse for starting the war...
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Macfeast
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Nov 23 2012, 12:24pm
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I'm not sure it is quite as complicated as that.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 23 2012, 2:04pm
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True, that's a possibility.
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Macfeast
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Nov 23 2012, 2:28pm
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This is what I would imagine.
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 3:41pm
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That depends...
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Shagrat
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Nov 23 2012, 4:05pm
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Not me.
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Fardragon
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Nov 23 2012, 4:12pm
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I think most people with beloved family and friends would understand revenge quite well
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 6:24pm
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AO I hate to pause you mid flow but
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 23 2012, 7:51pm
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Just rumors
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Elessar
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Nov 23 2012, 11:34pm
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Thank goodness we'll know
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Ardamírë
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Nov 23 2012, 11:37pm
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Begging your pardon, but they didn't get Moria back, even though they won the battle. Goblins didn't drive The Dwarves from Moria. A Balrog did.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 23 2012, 5:40pm
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PJ did originally film Sauron vs Aragorn in ROTK..
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irodino
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Nov 23 2012, 8:21am
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Here's another likely scenario both true to the book and what we have heard so far
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Jago M
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Nov 23 2012, 1:58pm
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Possible, but still not as good
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Faenoriel
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Nov 23 2012, 4:44pm
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