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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
German TV trailer: like Japanese, but without hieroglyphs
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TheHutt
Gondor


Nov 22 2012, 6:22pm

Post #1 of 29 (890 views)
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German TV trailer: like Japanese, but without hieroglyphs Can't Post

Here we go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLWK0vkdGXg


Also, it features the final approved speaker of Gandalf in the first line (Eckart Dux; the other two lines are by a temp trailer speaker, Gunther Schoss). The need to change the dubbing speaker for Gandalf was due to death of the previous actor, Achim Hoeppner, who voiced him in LOTR, who died 2006.

Russian LotR/Hobbit Site:


Henneth-annun.ru - the Russian LOTR site


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 22 2012, 6:28pm

Post #2 of 29 (486 views)
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Between hieroglyphs and german voices, i bet the majority will take the former. :P [In reply to] Can't Post

It's sad that there's not gonna be a 3rd full trailer. It would also be an opportunity to hear the final german voices, for those that care.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 22 2012, 6:33pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 6:56pm

Post #3 of 29 (416 views)
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Hieroglyphs [In reply to] Can't Post

rule!

Hugh...that was awfull. Tongue

It doenst even have 720p! Why bother, really?


(This post was edited by Lusitano on Nov 22 2012, 6:58pm)


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Nov 22 2012, 7:18pm

Post #4 of 29 (396 views)
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Disappointed that they have to dub it [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought us cultured Europeans were ok with foreign language films and subtitles?

* crunch *


little mouse
Rivendell

Nov 22 2012, 7:38pm

Post #5 of 29 (404 views)
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Germans are masters of dubbing [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like this version and german lyrics are beautiful


Aruakar
The Shire


Nov 22 2012, 8:10pm

Post #6 of 29 (356 views)
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Maybe not as good as LotR... [In reply to] Can't Post

(except the voice actors they kept* , such as the ones of Elrond, Galadriel and, of course, Gollum (Andreas Froehlich) !! "Mein Schaaaatzzzzz!!!")
...but definitely not bad. And I get used to Gandalfs new voice much faster than i ever imagined

* -> Well, they couldn't use the same voice actors for different characters


"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by..."
-- Robert Frost --


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 22 2012, 8:21pm

Post #7 of 29 (341 views)
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For me Gandalf's new voice would not be a problem... [In reply to] Can't Post

...since i've watched LOTR in german only like once, i don't remember his previous voice. I'll try to catch Hobbit in english, though. Nothing tops the original voices.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 22 2012, 8:21pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 10:30pm

Post #8 of 29 (293 views)
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We are. [In reply to] Can't Post

I ve watched german cinema all my life, in german obviously, as it is their language.


Perhaps i should review my choices...


Misto
Lorien

Nov 22 2012, 10:39pm

Post #9 of 29 (293 views)
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Ah well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... there's always the odd leftover ex US-Army cinema featuring original versions.
Anyway: the fact of the average cinema customer would lose out with most movies and I must admit subtitles are terribly annoying if you have to rely on them. You simply cannot concentrate on the movie the same way as without. I avoid them whenever I can. It's not like opera supertitles, where you really only have the odd glance every few minutes because you came for the music and stage setting, but you actually lose what the movie is all about. So I believe we're actually better off with the dubbed version. However, I regard it a crime to dub Hugo Weaving. Mad


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 11:00pm

Post #10 of 29 (282 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

I never lost anything...that must mean i am a genius!

Hurray!


waaimasjien
Bree

Nov 23 2012, 8:55am

Post #11 of 29 (233 views)
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You seem to speak English quite well, why read subtitles? [In reply to] Can't Post

I always ignore them and am very grateful that's possible - the Netherlands is an all subtitle-country, except for kids films.

I think it's rude to dub actors - their voices are part of the performance. It also doesn't add to the public's knowledge of foreign languages. Most countries actually dub the news, and it's those countries where you'll be able to start a conversation in English and just get a blank stare back (I'm looking at you, France and Germany - good thing I also speak French and German).
In the Netherlands there is a great emphasis on foreign languages in education, and I think films and television are really helpful in that respect; if you hear a language enough it'll be so much easier to learn to understand an speak it.

I study film and television sciences, and we're currently discussing concepts like authenticity, reality and representation/construction of facts in relation to the documentary genre. I just realized how these concepts take on a different meaning when documentary films are dubbed. Interesting.


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 23 2012, 9:04am

Post #12 of 29 (249 views)
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Dubbing [In reply to] Can't Post

The was an interview with a defecting Syrian ambassador on the news a couple of months ago. It was dubbed. unfortunately the person doing the dubbing had a rather silly voice. It was accidental - I know the guy who dubbed the voice, he is a behind-the-scenes journalist who got dragged in to do it at the last minute.

Of course, professional dubbers will do a much better job, but you can't not loose something of the original performance.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


TheHutt
Gondor


Nov 23 2012, 9:18am

Post #13 of 29 (220 views)
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There's dubbing and there're voiceovers [In reply to] Can't Post

Voiceovers used for translating interviews, news etc. The difference between that and dubbing is, that you can still hear the underlying original voice.

Dubbing is used for movies etc. in countries with a long dubbing tradition: Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Russia. Some other countries have a tradition of subtitling: Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark... there, only children animated films are dubbed.

There are also some original solutions. In Poland, there is still a tradition of the so-called "Polish lector". Films are translated by a voiceover translation, where one person speaks all the roles (or maybe two persons, a male and a female). Such voiceovers were also common in Russia in the 80s and 90s, but that was due to widespread video piracy. However, in Poland official film releases are also translated this way.

Russian LotR/Hobbit Site:


Henneth-annun.ru - the Russian LOTR site


Foromir
Rivendell


Nov 23 2012, 11:29am

Post #14 of 29 (204 views)
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Thoughts on dubbing traditons in Europe [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm German myself and was raised with dubbed movies in cinema and tv. As a child of course you don't realize that the language is not authentic and later you just get used to it. To switch later to original language (at least english) still seems to be too big an effort for many people and still means going against the norm, regrettably.

Myself, I have to thank my portuguese wife for convincing me that original language is so much better. Today I don't understand how I was okay with dubbed films for so many years. Thankfully we live in a big city (Berlin) where it's possible to see most films in original language, with our without subtitles.

In Portugal, like in most other smaller European countries, it is natural to see films and tv series in original languages with subtitles. A big reason why they are usually much better at speaking English than the notorious bigger nations, who are more self content with their own language (i.e. Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and Russia). Interestingly, while France was always very proud of its own language and culture and Russia/East Europe was/is a world of its own, the other three countries have the shadow of nationalistic or even fascist history in the last century, at a time where mass media was rapidly evolving and I guess that played no small part in establishing the tradition of dubbing foreign films.

At least there are signs that things start to improve here, education in foreign languages is getting a higher priority and.young people are often becoming more confident in English, also a side effect of internet and globalization for sure.


waaimasjien
Bree

Nov 23 2012, 11:31am

Post #15 of 29 (186 views)
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Interesting post, thanks for that! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Nov 23 2012, 1:23pm

Post #16 of 29 (186 views)
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The misty mountains sung in German. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds beautiful.I only wish it was sung in Danish,my mothers nationality.The Danish are known as Vikings, which would be perfectly fitting ,for the Dwarven race.
Something like this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_cahb4kbR0

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Nov 23 2012, 1:31pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2012, 4:07pm

Post #17 of 29 (147 views)
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I am glad to know a fellow patriot has been knocking some sense over there[;)] [In reply to] Can't Post

And that you have realized how ridiculous dubbing adult films is. Honestly, when i watched a few minutes of Lotr in greek and german and laughed my hobbity bum offLaugh

Interesting comment on the fascist history of Spain, Germany and Italy and how that influenced the dubbing of films.. That could very well be one of the reasons.

And you are correct about Portugal. All foreign films, tv shows and documentaries have subtitles so everybody can appreciate the beauty of many other languages and enrich themselves further! I notice that Italians, thought they are great at many things, speaking english is not exactly one of them. At least in my experience.
In fact, i recently had to work with a group of italians and i always had to serve as a translator in all manners of situations.

In my mind, being proud of your linguistic heritage and loving your own language has nothing to do with dubbing foreign films. It is precisely because one loves and appreciates different languages and respects other languages other than your own, and all the cultural significance that come with them with respect to the respective works of art, that one should not support the dubbing system.


Of the recent german films i have seen, such as Die Welle, Goody Lenine, The Edukators, and others, i can just imagine how ridiculous they would have sounded had they been translated into my own language haha. And how off putting it would have been to listen and watch german characters, in germany...not speaking german! Crazy


waaimasjien
Bree

Nov 23 2012, 8:02pm

Post #18 of 29 (130 views)
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Inglourious Basterds [In reply to] Can't Post

Makes me wonder, how do the Germans handle movies where different languages are made a point of, like Inglorious Basterds?

I looked up the trailer, and it is indeed all dubbed in German. But how the hell are they pulling off the linguistic problems, like "oh you don't speak German, so you have to act Italian" and "je vous demande la permission de passer à l’anglais pour le reste de la conversation."
Must sound extremely stupid. Not to mention Nazi-hunting Americans speaking German all the time.


Foromir
Rivendell


Nov 23 2012, 9:14pm

Post #19 of 29 (123 views)
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É muito verdade! ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

And I have had similar experiences with Italians, their English seems to be even worse than that of the Germans! Cool (no offense to italian members...Tongue)


Foromir
Rivendell


Nov 23 2012, 9:33pm

Post #20 of 29 (110 views)
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A just question! [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't bring myself to watch Inglorious Basterds in a german dubbed version, so I can't answer that. But it would be interesting!

Well, there is another example I can think of, the film "La vita é bella" by Roberto Benigni. There was a powerful scene in a concentration camp with a Nazi Officer shouting orders in german. The point of the scene was that the italian prisoners could not understand him so that Benigni's character could make up his own translation with a completely different meaning. I saw that film the second time on german tv, it was pathetic. The german officer was just shouting in such an exaggerated way to be almost unintelligible, but of course not quite. Everyone else was speaking perfectly german as well, but just couldn't understand what he was shouting. It felt like a parody!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2012, 10:01pm

Post #21 of 29 (105 views)
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Excellent question! [In reply to] Can't Post

My god, Ingourious Basterds dubbed in german? Has there ever been a film which explain very well why you shoudnt dub a film?

Like you said and Foromir explains, it must sound incredibly stupid. There is no other word for it. Ridiculous perhaps. It must be a torment to it in that way Tongue

Oh yes, so Chochana, who hates germans, speaks the german language? And when Landa speaks italian, german words come out of his mouth? Or did they shoot an alternate version of that scene where Landa puts on a fake mustache, grabs some gabaggu and acts italian? Crazy

If i were Quentin, i would have followed Mel Gibsons steps and not allowed dubbed versions...if it was financially possible, i guessUnsure


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2012, 10:03pm

Post #22 of 29 (118 views)
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Então não é! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha they wont get offended, they are the first to admit it haha.

My understanding is that, at least in Berlin everybody speaks english as a lingua franca, with greate ease and relaxation....


Foromir
Rivendell


Nov 23 2012, 10:52pm

Post #23 of 29 (95 views)
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If only that was true! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My understanding is that, at least in Berlin everybody speaks english as a lingua franca, with greate ease and relaxation....



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2012, 11:21pm

Post #24 of 29 (103 views)
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Ah [In reply to] Can't Post

i have been misinformed!

Have you been living for a long time in Berlin? Are you sure? Smile


Foromir
Rivendell


Nov 23 2012, 11:48pm

Post #25 of 29 (95 views)
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Been born here...believe me I should know! [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially in the Eastern part you'll find many, mostly older folk who are quite ignorant of English, not to mention other languages - quite contrary to the hip and trendy image the city wants to establish. But as I said, it starts to get better with the young people and new residents coming here. At least relative to other german cities, Berlin DOES feel international.

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