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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on Apparent Film Changes to Dwarven History (Spoilers)

Shagrat
Rohan

Nov 22 2012, 12:38pm


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Thoughts on Apparent Film Changes to Dwarven History (Spoilers) Can't Post

So we already knew about this change of Thrain being captured in Moria as he and Balin lead an expedition to reclaim Khazad-Dum. Now it emerged last night from the WETA book that Thror would appear to be taking part in the Battle of Azanulbizar (or Battle of Moria as it appears to be termed). I believe this tallies with what Richard Armitage said in an interview about Thror being decapitated or killed in battle by Azog. This is obviously another fairly big change. Thror's death will probably substitute for Nain's, and serve as a catalyst for a Dwarven push - on the soundtrack we hear some sad music before the pounding version of 'Thorin's Theme' with chanting behind it, as though he is leading the Dwarves in a charge. Of course that's just my interpretation of the music - it might be set to something completely different.

Personal feelings about these changes aside, I'm wondering how the film will reconcile these events. In one of the Vlogs we see Thorin and Thrain leading troops into combat, but this is almost certainly at Erebor given the architecture in the background, and so presumably during Smaug's attack. That got me wondering if they might change things so that Smaug's attack happened later, but I don't think this will be the case, since the track 'My Dear Frodo' contains what appears to be 'Smaug's Theme' at a relatively early stage. This would suggest that Thror might merely sit this one out. Plus we then have that footage of what appears to be Thror among Dwarven refugees. I suspect it might be here where Thrain loses an eye rather than at Azanulbizar, if he does at all.

Now I'm wondering if Thrain might take Thror's role in igniting the Dwarven conflict with the Goblins. Not in the sense that it'll be him killed and have 'AZOG' carved into his forehead, but that it is then he and Balin lead an expedition to Moria but Thrain is captured while Balin manages to escape and return to the tale, perhaps taking the role of Nar. Then it is Thror who leads the Dwarves to Moria in an effort to reclaim or avenge Thrain. Perhaps Thorin is even crowned following the victory.

Admittedly we have the issue of Thror's map and key - perhaps Thrain would take them and they'd be later found in Moria by Gandalf, providing he does indeed not encounter Thrain at Dol Guldur prior to the timeline of the films. But otherwise I struggle to see A) How they would explain the origins of the Dwarf-Goblin war without Thror's proper demise and B) Why Thrain and Balin would return to Moria so soon after Azanulbizar, especially if they adhere to the book in having a Dwarf (probably not Dain) sight the Balrog after the battle.

Anyway these are just my thoughts. I can't help but think they have only complicated things by changing the fates of Thror and Thrain, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out. This all hinges on whether or not these tie-in books are correct. Things may have changed since they were written.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Nov 22 2012, 12:39pm)

Subject User Time
Thoughts on Apparent Film Changes to Dwarven History (Spoilers) Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 22 2012, 12:38pm
    (re)order of events Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 22 2012, 3:11pm
        A) is interesting Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 22 2012, 3:33pm
        I would go with B Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 22 2012, 3:33pm
            Reason I think... DarkJackal Send a private message to DarkJackal Nov 22 2012, 3:47pm
                The strong orange light seen in the vlog also makes me believe it's during Smaug's attack Carne Send a private message to Carne Nov 22 2012, 3:51pm
                What vlog was that again? Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 22 2012, 4:40pm
                    Vlog #8 DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 22 2012, 4:42pm
                        Thanks a lot! Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 22 2012, 5:27pm
                            I agree. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 22 2012, 6:02pm
                            There's also... Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 22 2012, 7:01pm
                                Desk DarkJackal Send a private message to DarkJackal Nov 22 2012, 7:26pm
                                    Whereas a desk just past the gate of a still inhabited Erebor, ... Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 22 2012, 7:45pm
                                        good spot! You convinced me Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 22 2012, 11:25pm
        B makes more sense Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Nov 22 2012, 4:20pm
        Why Gandalf goes that way (Spoiler)? Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Nov 22 2012, 6:06pm
            I don't think Gandalf will enter Dol Guldur before the film begins. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Nov 22 2012, 6:19pm
        I think they will pile up all the events you mention in B Jago M Send a private message to Jago M Nov 22 2012, 11:33pm
    According to the soundtrack... Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Nov 22 2012, 5:19pm
        I agree Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 22 2012, 5:28pm
            Oh yes! There it is ;-) Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Nov 22 2012, 5:35pm
                Hopefully Shagrat Send a private message to Shagrat Nov 22 2012, 5:43pm
                    Why there will be 4 exclusive bonus tracks ;-) Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Nov 22 2012, 6:11pm
    It would be a shame... DarkJackal Send a private message to DarkJackal Nov 22 2012, 7:39pm
        Not to mention what happens thereafter. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 22 2012, 8:00pm
            With the name Defiler... DarkJackal Send a private message to DarkJackal Nov 22 2012, 8:14pm
        It is a shame Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Nov 22 2012, 9:18pm
    Wait - Weta book reveals? Where!? Please share! Defiant Send a private message to Defiant Nov 23 2012, 2:25am
        Nevermind - answered. Thanks. Defiant Send a private message to Defiant Nov 23 2012, 3:17am

 
 
 

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