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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
4K HFR 3D projectors FYI
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Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 4:52pm

Post #1 of 47 (1550 views)
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4K HFR 3D projectors FYI Can't Post

If you are wanting to see The Hobbit in 4K HFR 3D this is the projection system that is capable of that.

The NEC 3000-lumen 4K Digital Cinema Projector
MODEL: NC3240S-A

Why do you care about this?

Highest Resolution (4K)
HFR (these projectors were built with this intent... it was a free software upgrade for the companies that bought this system)
Biggest screens (70 to 100 ft wide)

Projection System

I have seen several 2D movies on the NEC/NC3240S 4K projector and they have the most vibrant, rich, deep images I have seen from a DLP system (I've seen a lot of DLP projection). Laser projection will change everything but they are not mainstream yet.

The theater that I am seeing The Hobbit in actually promotes the brand and specs of this projection system so check your theaters to see if they offer this as well.

Projection Promotion

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Nov 21 2012, 5:02pm

Post #2 of 47 (1219 views)
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so.. [In reply to] Can't Post

so are you saying only cinemas with this projection system in place can playback hfr 3d 4k or is this just best perforable.

?

for quickbeam often laughed, he laughed if the sun came out from behind a cloud, he laughed if they came upon a stream or spring:


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 5:08pm

Post #3 of 47 (1221 views)
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NEC offers a native 4K HFR solution... [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of the other projection will be 2K upgrading to HFR firmware... which means you will see the higher frame rate at a lower resolution... not a bad thing. It will still be a beautiful image.

This was just to help those people that are cine-files and want to see the best possible image to date.

I have always maintained that if you are not seeing it in HFR then please try to see it in 4K 2D Digital Projection. There are plenty of 4K projection systems out there.

Here is a 4K Theatre locator for major countries around the world by various theater chains.

4K Theatre Locator


Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Kassandros
Rohan


Nov 21 2012, 5:12pm

Post #4 of 47 (1207 views)
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If my theater is on this list, does that mean it will use that projector? [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought tickets to the "3D HFR" showing of the film from a theater on Sony's website. The website also mentioned that the screen was large when I bought the tickets. Can I assume that I will be seeing the film shown on the projector you are describing?

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 5:16pm

Post #5 of 47 (1215 views)
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Probably... if not it will be a Barco, Christie, or Sony projection system. [In reply to] Can't Post

All of those are wonderful projectors with beautiful imagery.

They all have variations of the 4K projection system... the one I posted happens to project onto massive screens ("Mega") and is really bright (which is advantageous for 3D HFR)

If you are seeing it in 2D... 4K will be beautiful no matter what.

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Nov 21 2012, 6:02pm

Post #6 of 47 (1041 views)
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so.. [In reply to] Can't Post

hangon , to be clear, are you saying the only projector thats capable of screening the hobbit at 48fps 3d 4k is the one you mentioned?

for quickbeam often laughed, he laughed if the sun came out from behind a cloud, he laughed if they came upon a stream or spring:


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Nov 21 2012, 6:04pm

Post #7 of 47 (1037 views)
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ok [In reply to] Can't Post

just read above reply, sorry,

for quickbeam often laughed, he laughed if the sun came out from behind a cloud, he laughed if they came upon a stream or spring:


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 21 2012, 6:27pm

Post #8 of 47 (1019 views)
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You sure? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where does it state it can project 4K + 3D + HFR? I mean, all at the same time.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 21 2012, 6:28pm)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 6:51pm

Post #9 of 47 (991 views)
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Yes I am sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

But here is a different spec. sheet that shows what you are looking for.

http://www.nec-lcd.com/...model-nc3240s-detail


Quote
3D content utilizes the projector's full 4K resolution using triple flash technology for smooth motion


Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 21 2012, 6:59pm

Post #10 of 47 (992 views)
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I've read it... [In reply to] Can't Post

That still doesn't confirm it. As far as i know triple flash (projecting 3x the same frame) and HFR is not the same. On the other hand, why does it say "for smooth motion"? Triple flash does not improve motion artifacts because again, it's 3x the same frame. It's like someone without knowledge has written that. Confusing...


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 7:16pm

Post #11 of 47 (991 views)
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Let me try to explain. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

A. It does full 4K
B. Triple flash is how it presents 3D (has nothing to do with HFR)
C. The projector has a free firmware upgrade to allow it to present HFR

Each frame that is presented in triple flash is a full 4K frame.

Triple flash is a way of presenting 3D... has nothing to do with HFR.

Information your left and right eye see are seen by these triple flash frames. The smoothness they are alluding to is basically in response to the strobing/headache complaints from traditional 3D.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

(This post was edited by Owain on Nov 21 2012, 7:18pm)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 7:24pm

Post #12 of 47 (993 views)
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Here is another link... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.hughsnews.ca/...-rate-movies-0029409


Quote
NEC has performed major development to the software within its Series 2 line, including the NC1200C, NC2000C and NC3200S, with the launch of version 3.3 of its Release Package. This enables the projectors to support the HFR format with IMB input, allowing 60 frames per second in 2D and 3D, with 48 frames per second in Double Flash 3D. This leads to faster movement, sharper images and a much smoother picture. Support of HFR technology will be available for the NC3240S 4K projector in the spring of 2012.


Note the last line... "Support of HFR technology will be available for the NC3240S 4K projector in the spring of 2012."

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

(This post was edited by Owain on Nov 21 2012, 7:25pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 21 2012, 8:07pm

Post #13 of 47 (957 views)
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Sorry but there is no confirmation in there as far as i'm concerned. ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

It never explicitly states it supports 3D HFR in 4K, just "this 4K projector can do 3D HFR". Sony is saying the same things for their 4K projectors in their PR material but in reality they project 3D HFR in 2K, putting two 2K frames on top of each other at the same time, which equals 4K in data.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 21 2012, 8:16pm)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 8:09pm

Post #14 of 47 (952 views)
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I understand the tech. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 21 2012, 8:15pm

Post #15 of 47 (935 views)
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Never said you didn't. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 9:31pm

Post #16 of 47 (936 views)
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As a side note... here is RED Digital Cinema's offering for projectors. [In reply to] Can't Post

REDRAY will be released in about a week.

REDRAY Projector from RED Digital Cinema. (The same manufacturer as the RED Epic D-Cinema camera)

It's laser based and supports 4K 2D/3D.

Note:

Quote
The device supports 2D and passive 3D (up to 120fps in 3D mode), with 4K projection for each eye and has a rated laser life of over 25,000 hours.

They will be offering a theater and home theater version.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 21 2012, 9:35pm

Post #17 of 47 (918 views)
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I'm going to email my cinema again this week [In reply to] Can't Post

To find out whether they are capable of HFR. Should I quote this then?

Smile

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 9:37pm

Post #18 of 47 (937 views)
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It's likely that the management and box office... [In reply to] Can't Post

Will have little if any knowledge of the tech in their theaters. Sad but true.

A lot of the theaters websites will promote the tech that they use as a selling point. With a little digging you should be able to find out what systems they are using.

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

(This post was edited by Owain on Nov 21 2012, 9:38pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 21 2012, 9:41pm

Post #19 of 47 (926 views)
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I email the head office, rather than the actual branch. [In reply to] Can't Post

And the website is rubbish anyway.Wink

Desperate to see it in HFR for the first time.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 9:42pm

Post #20 of 47 (911 views)
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Good call. They will probably have more info. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2012, 9:51pm

Post #21 of 47 (930 views)
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Peter Jackson has selected his HFR 3D projector for the NZ premiere [In reply to] Can't Post

Article here from Broadcast Engineers.

It's a Christie Smile

Great projectors... saw the The Dark Knight in 4K on one of these... BEAUTIFUL.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Carsten
Registered User

Nov 22 2012, 12:43am

Post #22 of 47 (877 views)
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4k or fake-k? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If you are wanting to see The Hobbit in 4K HFR 3D this is the projection system that is capable of that.


There is not a single projection system in the world currently able to project HFR-3D in 4k. To be more precise: Every 3D copy or DCP of 'The Hobbit' will only be 2k. That's the only agreed standard.

If shown on any 4k capable digital cinema projector, it will be played back in 2k, but upscaled to 4k in the projector. There is no difference between all three DLP based brands/manufacturers in this respect, since they all share their main TI OEM components. Be it NEC, Christie, or Barco - they all offer 2k and 4k projectors.
The maximum input framerate for these at 4k is 30fps. So even with a stacked projection system (2 machines) no 4k HFR playback.
Sony 3D is not even upscaled 4k, but two 2k frames overlayed on each other.

You would have a hard time telling native 4k projection from 4k upscale anyway, especially in 3D. Don't bother wether it is 'real' 4k, just enjoy the movie.

http://www.barco.com/...Digital%20Cinema.pdf
- Carsten


(This post was edited by Carsten on Nov 22 2012, 12:52am)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 4:49am

Post #23 of 47 (845 views)
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Actually that's not true... [In reply to] Can't Post

"There is not a single projection system in the world currently able to project HFR-3D in 4k."

RED Digital Cinema demoed a 4K laser projection system at NAB that is capable of playing back a 4K DCP in 3D HFR. (4K for each eye).

Qube also has an offering of HFR 3D 4K as well.

Yes, I know they all share the same TI components and I also knew about the Sony 2K frame overlay.




Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 5:11am

Post #24 of 47 (857 views)
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I am wrong. [In reply to] Can't Post

I had thought that 4K HFR DCPs were approved by the Digital Cinema System Specification.

But Carsten is right.

The Digital Cinema System Specification from the Digital Cinema Initiative says in it's Version 1.2 spec sheet that DCPs at 4K can only be at 24fps.

My knowledge of what RED is doing not only with their cameras but their projectors led me to believe that the firmware upgrade would allow 4K HFR 3D DCPs.

The DCI only allows 2K HFR 3D DCPs


Quote

The DCDM image structure is required to support a frame rate of 24.000 Hz. The DCDM image structure can also support a frame rate of 48.000 Hz for 2K image content only. The frame rate of any individual DCDM master is required to remain constant. Metadata is carried in the image data file format to indicate the frame rate.


I stand corrected.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2012, 5:13am

Post #25 of 47 (873 views)
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You are right about the DCP requirement. [In reply to] Can't Post

See my post above.

However 4K 3D HFR does exist (4K for each eye). I had thought the DCI had approved this.

I am wrong.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

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