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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Wranglers say 'Hobbit' animals died on unsafe farm"
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2012, 4:24pm

Post #1 of 50 (1887 views)
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"Wranglers say 'Hobbit' animals died on unsafe farm" Can't Post

Here's the story at Entertainment Weekly. They didn't die during the actual filming.

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Demosthenes
Sr. Staff


Nov 19 2012, 4:28pm

Post #2 of 50 (896 views)
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AP did the legwork, it seems [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Here's the story at Entertainment Weekly. They didn't die during the actual filming.


Here's the original source as far as I can tell: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_NEW_ZEALAND_HOBBIT_ANIMAL_DEATHS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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IRC Admin and Hall of Fire moderator


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 19 2012, 4:31pm

Post #3 of 50 (898 views)
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I'm all for animal welfare [In reply to] Can't Post

And like the previous report a couple of months ago, it certainly needs to be investigated. Especially so it doesn't happen again on future film productions.

I read in another article that there will be a protest at the Wellington premiere. Now, I don't agree with that. A film premiere is certainly not the right time or place for such action.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Bombadil
Half-elven


Nov 19 2012, 4:38pm

Post #4 of 50 (950 views)
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If you READ. closely near the End.. [In reply to] Can't Post

"None are housed at that farm anymore

..and PJ adopted 3 of the Pigs...!"

This to Bomby is just headline grabbing and Sour Grapes.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2012, 4:42pm

Post #5 of 50 (783 views)
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Thanks. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Sam20
Lorien

Nov 19 2012, 5:28pm

Post #6 of 50 (804 views)
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Animals [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with DanielB, there has to be a follow up to know exactly how it came to happen and who is to be held responsible. I don't think the problem is how they've been treated in their use in The Hobbit but perhaps in the management of handing them over to a proper farm where they belong. A protest in the Hobbit premier seems to me prematured, no one with compassion wants to see animals been ill treated but let's get our fact straight before trying to disrupt an event.


(This post was edited by sam90 on Nov 19 2012, 5:31pm)


shadowdog
Rohan

Nov 19 2012, 5:34pm

Post #7 of 50 (769 views)
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Weren't there simililar [In reply to] Can't Post

claims made about horses in the filming of Lord of the Rings?


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 19 2012, 5:37pm

Post #8 of 50 (779 views)
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But those rumours were debunked [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me find the source...



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Nov 19 2012, 5:52pm

Post #9 of 50 (743 views)
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I seem to remember this being a guy who had no proof trying to blame the production [In reply to] Can't Post

And as you said, wasn't this debunked months ago?


(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 19 2012, 5:52pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 19 2012, 5:58pm

Post #10 of 50 (746 views)
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If it's the story I remember from a few months back [In reply to] Can't Post

(with 'few' probably being longer than I remember)...

then it wasn't debunked. I remember it being a heated conversation among people who believed it to be true and people who wanted to have more of the story before they decided what to believe.

In the end, we only get snippets of information whether it be from the 'no animals were harmed' camp or the 'it was terrible abuse' camp and, imo, we aren't ever going to know the full story. Too many people have agendas or reputations to protect and it seems that even the neutral third parties don't do that good a job at monitoring for the public at large.

Personally, I am always very suspect of people coming out with information like this at opportune moments. It just seems like there must be channels one can go through to effect real and lasting change (or punishment) than through demonstrations and press releases. Why weren't those channels explored - or, if they were - why aren't we told about them?


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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Nov 19 2012, 7:38pm

Post #11 of 50 (664 views)
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And as long as [In reply to] Can't Post

the final truth is concealed, many people will be considering PJ and everyone involed in the film as horrible, heartless, animal abusing frauds. Well, that's the world for you.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Nov 19 2012, 7:40pm

Post #12 of 50 (689 views)
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No the original LOTR claims were pretty thoroughly debunked [In reply to] Can't Post

But the ones from a few months ago were simply left as allegations.

LR


comandantedavid
The Shire

Nov 19 2012, 7:40pm

Post #13 of 50 (664 views)
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I remember ... [In reply to] Can't Post

a strong tendency on the forum to treat the accusations as unfounded, perhaps contributing to our friend's recollection that they had been "debunked." I don't think the animal deaths can be laid at PJ's door, and I'm not surprised that parts of such a massive operation would go awry. But I do think we can separate being fans of the film from being partisan for a production company.

And "proper channels" fail all the time, but the news doesn't usually want to cover the dull narrative of every pencil pusher who yawned at a complaint. The properly skeptical response to poorly reported accusations is to wait for more info, not to suspect ex ante that the messenger is looking for five minutes of fame. In this case, more info seems to support the initial accusations.


comandantedavid
The Shire

Nov 19 2012, 7:43pm

Post #14 of 50 (666 views)
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Here's the story about "proper channels": [In reply to] Can't Post

"Smythe said he was fired in October 2011 after arguing with his boss about the treatment of the animals."

"A fourth wrangler, who didn’t want to be named because she feared it could jeopardize her future employment in the industry..."

Not exhaustive, but it illustrates the problem.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Nov 20 2012, 2:50am

Post #15 of 50 (476 views)
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A better article than the previous one, thanks NEB {nt} [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Nov 20 2012, 6:18am

Post #16 of 50 (448 views)
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A longer comment from Jackson [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.torontosun.com/...al-abuse-allegations

Don't be put off by the tabloid-esque title of the piece, it seems to be several inches of a direct statement from Jackson.


Username4242
Bree

Nov 20 2012, 6:44am

Post #17 of 50 (462 views)
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Full statement from Peter Jackson: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.facebook.com/notes/peter-jackson/animal-allegations-on-the-hobbit/10151300381651558

Unsurprisingly, PETA is full of it.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 20 2012, 8:10am

Post #18 of 50 (402 views)
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Thanks, I missed this. [In reply to] Can't Post

And thank you to PJ for clearing that up. It's ridiculous that he (more likely his representative) has to spend his/their valuable time in defending themselves, when they have far more important things to be getting on with.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Lissuin
Tol Eressea


Nov 20 2012, 9:38am

Post #19 of 50 (389 views)
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Statements from producers and American Humane Association [In reply to] Can't Post

All we've heard today is pretty one-sided. Here is some alternate interpretation of events.

1) American Humane Association review of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey:

http://www.americanhumanefilmtv.org/...-unexpected-journey/

2) From producers of The Hobbit, as reported in Deadline Hollywood today http://www.deadline.com/...animal-death-claims/:

Quote
The Hobbit production has always instituted swift and immediate investigations in to any concerns of any kind over the treatment of animals under its care. A prompt and thorough investigation into the recent unsubstantiated allegations by the American organisation, PETA, in to the ‘hobbling’ of a horse during the making of The Hobbit was undertaken. No evidence of such a practice was found to have occurred at any time. Further, the production contacted the owner of the horse concerned who provided the following statement: “I am 100% happy with the return of Shanghai and his condition. In the term that he was leased he was picked up and returned to me two times. On both occasions there was not a mark on him and he was healthy and happy. He has shown no signs of ill-treatment. I would not hesitate in leasing him to the movie again.”
To date, the only horse wranglers whose treatment of animals fell below the production’s standard of care seem to be the two wranglers who have chosen to level this new accusation on the eve of the premiere of the first Hobbit film and who were dismissed by the production over a year ago. Reports of their actions are documented in several written statements dating back to October 2011.

The production regrets that PETA has chosen to make such a serious accusation, which has distressed many of the dedicated Kiwis who worked with animals on the films – including trainers, wranglers, care-givers, farm workers and animal health care professionals - without properly vetting the source from which they received this information.



Quote
The producers of The Hobbit take the welfare of all animals very seriously and have always pursued the highest standard of care for animals in their charge. Any incidents that occurred that were brought to their attention as regards to this care were immediately investigated and appropriate action taken. This includes hundreds of thousands of dollars that were spent on upgrading housing and stable facilities in early 2011.

The producers completely reject the accusations that twenty seven animals died due to mistreatment during the making of the films. Extraordinary measures were taken to make sure that animals were not used during action sequences or any other sequence that might create undue stress for the animals involved. Over fifty five per cent of all shots using animals in The Hobbit are in fact computer generated; this includes horses, ponies, rabbits, hedgehogs, birds, deer, elk, mice, wild boars, and wolves.

The American Humane Association (AHA) was on hand to monitor all use of animals by the production. No animals died or were harmed on set during filming.

We regret that some of these accusations by wranglers who were dismissed from the film over a year ago are only now being brought to our attention. We are currently investigating these new allegations and are attempting to speak with all parties involved to establish the truth.


I don't want animals to die or suffer in the making of any film - on or off set (and neither, I'm absolutely certain, do the film makers) - AND I don't want accusations of mistreatment as reported in the press to be accepted as fact without an investigation. We have the Associated Press report of things the wranglers claim happened, and we have the producers' statements here and in several articles today that when problems were reported, steps were taken to correct them. In any case, let the AHA or an officially appointed New Zealand organization continue to make sure that animals used in all forms of entertainment are safe.


Lissuin
Tol Eressea


Nov 20 2012, 9:40am

Post #20 of 50 (373 views)
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And see Home page article just posted [In reply to] Can't Post

"Statement from Peter Jackson and the producers of The Hobbit about animal mistreatment allegations"

http://www.theonering.net/...eatment-allegations/


(This post was edited by Lissuin on Nov 20 2012, 9:42am)


Demosthenes
Sr. Staff


Nov 20 2012, 1:55pm

Post #21 of 50 (358 views)
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There is a discrepancy between PETA's claims and the AP report [In reply to] Can't Post

The Associated Press report doesn't address the hobbling and rope-burn allegations.

I'm trying to discover why, since PETA claims to have supplied AP the numbers on the animal deaths "exclusively".

Might not get any answers, but we'll see.

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IRC Admin and Hall of Fire moderator


TheHutt
Gondor


Nov 20 2012, 2:06pm

Post #22 of 50 (352 views)
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PETA campaign? [In reply to] Can't Post

I got contacted by PETA a couple of weeks ago about a request to give them permission to use the Ringbearer font (which I designed) for, quote:


Quote
-A fan-friendly infographic detailing the issues
-materials for various live protests
-a banner for our main feature page detailing the issues


I don't want to sound paranoid, but it looks like some planned campaign to me, specifically targeted against The Hobbit. Or it is some great coincidence.

Russian LotR/Hobbit Site:


Henneth-annun.ru - the Russian LOTR site


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 20 2012, 2:16pm

Post #23 of 50 (324 views)
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There's supposed to be a protest at the premiere in Wellington. [In reply to] Can't Post

Might be for that?

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



TheHutt
Gondor


Nov 20 2012, 2:27pm

Post #24 of 50 (315 views)
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Probably. [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyway, I haven't give them permission. Smile

Russian LotR/Hobbit Site:


Henneth-annun.ru - the Russian LOTR site


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Nov 20 2012, 3:47pm

Post #25 of 50 (288 views)
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One more time Daniel? [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

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