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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So is this antagonist set up pretty much confirmed?

The Shire

Nov 19 2012, 3:44am

Post #1 of 13 (1824 views)
So is this antagonist set up pretty much confirmed? Can't Post

A lot of evidence is pointing towards The Hobbit's main villain being Sauron, and chronicling his rise and return to power using the Quest for Erebor as a reason to show it. And I also feel Sauron's motive in the films will be revealed to be reaching out to Smaug and trying to recruit him to his army. A lot of things I've noticed from interviews, soundtracks, and more:

1) Cumberbatch stating that the Necromancer is at the Battle of Five Armies (most critical piece of evidence).
2) Bolg in Dol Goldur
3) Mordor theme being prominent in the soundtrack.
4) The one ring theme being played for the ring. I don't feel Bilbo will see the ring and it will be subtle. The ring is too much a part of pop culture, and I believe its corruption/power will play a large element in the movies. This is also based off of Radagast in the trailer stating "A dark power has returned to the world."
5) From a movie perspective, three villains (Sauron, Smaug, Bolg) with separate motives affecting separate stories is weak. I feel that the filmmakers have decided they needed an overarching story/threat to the world. In this case, I think they will establish Sauron attempting to build a base in the Lonely Mountain and try to connect with Smaug.

Now I know a lot of people don't want this at all in the story, but I think convincing ourselves that Sauron will not be the main villain will be pointless. It seems very likely. And if this is truly going to be the direction these films take, I want to know what you guys think of it?

(This post was edited by BiggieSmaug on Nov 19 2012, 3:50am)

Tol Eressea

Nov 19 2012, 4:32am

Post #2 of 13 (956 views)
I missed where Benedict Cumberbatch... [In reply to] Can't Post

stated that the Necromancer would be at the BOFA.

When did he say this?

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

Forum Admin / Moderator

Nov 19 2012, 5:15am

Post #3 of 13 (927 views)
Back in January. [In reply to] Can't Post

He said that he was voicing the Necromancer which was "a character in the Five Legions war or something", which is somewhat ambiguous. If there has been confirmation of the Necromancer's physical presence at the battle, I must have missed it. But many people are sure he will appear there.

Here is the story in which he made the comment.


Registered User

Nov 19 2012, 6:34am

Post #4 of 13 (880 views)
About the ring [In reply to] Can't Post


"The way that itís rationalized, and I think people in the Tolkien world have rationalized it as the ring doesnít really gain its power until Sauron comes back and actively starts to look for it, so itís asleep for a while and in the days of Frodo itís getting very agitated and it wants to find its way back to Sauron.
Weíre taking that approach. But we are very gradually building up the effects of the ring within the movie.
So the first time he puts it on itís simply a magic ring, but each time he puts it on the effect of it gets to him a bit more. Weíre doing a little story within that. "

Northern Norway

Registered User

Nov 19 2012, 6:37am

Post #5 of 13 (877 views)
I really, really hope he's not there physically [In reply to] Can't Post

That would ruin it in //so many ways//. I would be ok with a 'spiritual presence', sort of thing, but even that...

But if we aren't getting a choice in the matter, they better capitalize on invisible, unconscious Bilbo and the ring being so very close to its master.


Nov 19 2012, 8:09am

Post #6 of 13 (892 views)
Sauron won't be the main antagonist [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the story of The Hobbit has nothing to do with him.

Apart from Smaug, the main antagonists will be the Orcs, Goblins and the Wargs. They might be "under" the Necromancer, but Sauron personally, will not be the main antagonist.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!


Nov 19 2012, 8:22am

Post #7 of 13 (856 views)
I think you're just guessing... [In reply to] Can't Post

None of this amounts to confirmation. I'd rather wait and see what they have done, in context, before deciding whether it works or not.

Tol Eressea

Nov 19 2012, 9:38am

Post #8 of 13 (794 views)
I don't agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

One can draw any conclusion they want from the "facts" known so far, but your prime evidence of Cumberbatch's interview quote is dodgy at best, since he appeared unable to name the Bo5A correctly!

There will be reference to the Ring in the White Council meeting, according to the Visual Guide, and we have PJ's quote already posted in this thread to indicate that the Ring will not be portrayed as completely harmless throughout the film, but I think this is a necessary consequence of Hobbit being made after LotR. One hopes however, that the connection will not be made during this trilogy.

From your list I would say that the fact of Bolg being given a larger role than just appearing in the Bo5A like the book, along with Azog (who may only be in an Azanulbizar prologue) and Yazneg in Dol Guldur, indicates that these will be the villains built up to fill the position of major antagonists. I would guess (and fervently hope) that any appearances of Sauron will be confined the White Council storyline...

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Į Victoria Monfort

(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 19 2012, 9:39am)

Tol Eressea

Nov 19 2012, 9:53pm

Post #9 of 13 (578 views)
Oh yeah... I had forgotten this. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm... I guess I had put it out of my mind.

Thanks for the link.


Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Nov 19 2012, 10:07pm

Post #10 of 13 (603 views)
I'm very sanguine about the idea of Sauron [In reply to] Can't Post

Having influence over the Misty Mountain orcs. This is a perfectly supportable reading of the history.



Nov 20 2012, 7:33am

Post #11 of 13 (510 views)
I had the idea [In reply to] Can't Post

that the attack on Erebor could be a diversion of sorts, to divert Gandalf from pursuing Sauron after Dol Guldur falls.

Gandalf reaches the Necromancer's inner sanctum just in time to see the secret panel behind the throne closing. A tape recording plays: "Pursue my if you wish, wizard, but know that even now my warg riders are about to crush your dwarf friends - and your little hobbit too! Muh ha ha ha!!" Wink

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Nov 20 2012, 7:34am)


Nov 20 2012, 9:49am

Post #12 of 13 (498 views)
And I've thus learned a new word today [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine it being pronounced like "penguin". Or not? Thanks.


Nov 20 2012, 10:19am

Post #13 of 13 (744 views)
sang-win [In reply to] Can't Post

Literally, it means "the colour of blood", but it's usually taken to mean "optimistic".

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


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