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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TV Spot 6!
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 6:05am

Post #101 of 142 (774 views)
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But isn't insincerity [In reply to] Can't Post

At the heart of what it means to be British? Wink


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 15 2012, 6:39am

Post #102 of 142 (741 views)
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Oh no, of course not [In reply to] Can't Post

I just remember plenty of people saying they expected the different colored cloaks when these dwarf designs were revealed. I think the filmmakers intentionally went outlandish so that we would able to recognize specific silhouettes from a distance. If there was a battle sequence and all the dwarves looked more or less similar, I think it would be very difficult to tell what was going on or who was doing what. With four or five it might be fine, but thirteen? It's a lot to keep track of, and I think casual audiences would have a tough time, especially with the similar names added in the mix. It's just an easy visual tool.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 6:42am

Post #103 of 142 (730 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

On the decision to create varying silhouettes for each of the dwarves. However, there is a fine line between interesting and cartoonish, and I think they may have fallen on the wrong side of that line with Nori and Bombur.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 15 2012, 7:31am

Post #104 of 142 (728 views)
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Aw, c'mon the person didn't say there were only two options. [In reply to] Can't Post

Golly!

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 15 2012, 8:42am

Post #105 of 142 (711 views)
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No. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
At the heart of what it means to be British? Wink


But concealing sincerity is.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Nov 15 2012, 8:49am)


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 15 2012, 11:35am

Post #106 of 142 (719 views)
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My analysis of TV spot 6: [In reply to] Can't Post

We all know that in the book, Bilbo earns his Hero stripes fighting the spiders in Mirkwood. However, for a movie, this sequence has a problem: Bilbo is invisible. This means either we don't see Bilbo, or, from his point of view, what is happening is unclear. You don't want a lack of clarity to interfere with such a critical moment of character development. You could also argue that invisibility is an unfair advantage (especially combined with a Ring of Power and a magic sword of spider slaying +10), and thus, it isn't particularly heroic anyway.

So, I think Bilbo will earn his stripes earlier, during the Warg fight. Thorin is caught in the jaws of a warg and tossed around like a rag doll. Bilbo leaps to his rescue and kills the warg. "That's quite a sting you have there, hobbit," gasps Thorin.

This, of course, fits with the three film structure better, and frees up Legolas and Tauriel to make a significant contribution to spider slaying.

So, how does “can you fight?” fit in? I’m guessing Bilbo will be asked this several times during the course of the movie. If we take it that his little speech comes from the end of AUJ, then the question is asked as a comradely joke, because Bilbo has just proved that the answer is “yes”. The film ends with laughter like an old episode of Star Trek.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 15 2012, 12:29pm

Post #107 of 142 (643 views)
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The laugh [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not only appropriate, it's perfect =D

The scene really reminds me of when he sneaks up on Gandalf and the dwarves (and especially Balin), after escaping from the goblins. The laughter might be a response to some question from Dwalin, concerning the manner of his escape - and Balin would probably support him, since Bilbo managed to sneak past him as well!


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 15 2012, 12:32pm

Post #108 of 142 (635 views)
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I don't think... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Thorin asks him about the fighting in that scene. We saw it earlier in another TV spot, where it's put in Bag End - which seems like a much more logical context.


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 15 2012, 12:47pm

Post #109 of 142 (634 views)
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I really agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO, Martin is the perfect Bilbo, and the perfect hobbit. As you say, in relation to dwarves, men and elves, the hobbits are a bit more modern. They reflect the (in 1937) reader, and author. (I have a harder time accepting Elijah Wood's "elven" hobbit. I think Elijah is a great actor, but the script takes away too much hobbitness from Frodo.)

And casting, rather than scriptwriting, has always been PJ's strong side, I think. That's why I even trust him on Persbrandt as Beorn, until proven wrong. As a swede, I've never been impressed by Persbrandt, neither as an actor nor as a private person. But if Philippa, Fran and PJ thinks he'll work, I won't argue.


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 15 2012, 12:50pm

Post #110 of 142 (630 views)
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YES! [In reply to] Can't Post

THANK YOU - I just spent far too many letters trying to get at the same thing as you, in another comment =)


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 15 2012, 12:52pm

Post #111 of 142 (624 views)
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Well put! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 2:10pm

Post #112 of 142 (607 views)
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The only one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you made your peace with Bifur's axe?

I haven't. (Surprisingly, RA's explanation for his short beard has made me somewhat more acccepting of Kili's beardlessness.)

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 15 2012, 4:24pm

Post #113 of 142 (580 views)
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thing is, I think they have created [In reply to] Can't Post

a rod for their own backs making all the Dwarves so individual. This means they all have to have individual backstories to explain the weirdness (axes in noodles) and these backstories take up valuable screen time that should be devoted to Bilbo and HIS journey. I prefer the book, where most of them are mostly in the background, being silent. I am not really too interested in made up backstories of made up axes etc. I AM interested in Balins backstory, and Thorins backstory, the others, not so much. So I WOULD have preferred coloured cloaks and hoods, that all they need. IMO. and its far far more in keeping with Tolkien than handsome hunks with stubble.


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 15 2012, 4:36pm

Post #114 of 142 (569 views)
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A case can certainly be made [In reply to] Can't Post

that it would be more true to the book if most of the dwarves where fairly anonymous and interchangeable red-shirts. Just a band of troops rather than individual characters.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 15 2012, 5:18pm

Post #115 of 142 (559 views)
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The problem PJ runs into with this approach is... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the most common criticism (that I read, over and over again) of his LOTR adaptation was that none of the ancillary characters were developed enough. He rightly focused on Frodo and his trip to Mordor but not being able to dedicate more time to the other characters in the end made it all feel very rushed to a lot of folks. He received some praise in reviews for the extended editions about further character development so he's getting feedback that more for all the characters is a good thing. So, PJ may be trying to avoid the rushed experience and make sure that the audience not only feels attached to Bilbo but to the rest of the cast as well. We'll see how that works out, I think it'll be fine.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


triptrap
Lorien

Nov 15 2012, 6:12pm

Post #116 of 142 (550 views)
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lovely [In reply to] Can't Post

i really adore this sixth spot and i think it's the best out of all. it doesnt have much action, it focuses on the characters and on building momentum and atmosphere, which caused a deep feeling of the world and the story within me.
also bilbo saying: but i will help you take it back if i can!
reminds me soooo much of young frodo in rivendell: i will take the ring, even though i don't know the way.

god, i'm cracking up over here, this is all just so awesome
Smile


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 15 2012, 7:56pm

Post #117 of 142 (521 views)
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I don't think all the backstory will take up screentime though [In reply to] Can't Post

It's essential to each actor, but I doubt we're going to get entire scenes based around Ori or Nori, for example. The individuality is primarily for visual purposes.

Also, as Philippa points out in the Official Move Guide: "What we didn't want to do was overload the film with too much information upfront. When you read Tolkien's books you see that he reveals his characters gradually in the telling of the story, so we tried to follow his lead. Rather than panic about having thirteen Dwarves and the audience needing to know all about them, we allowed them to become known to us and they become known to Bilbo." (pg. 23)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 8:08pm

Post #118 of 142 (504 views)
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Um, it was quite strongly implied by the following statement [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I can definitely see why people think the weird dwarf designs are OTT, but I think they're the very reason we're able to distinguish them all even before seeing the film. Different colored cloaks wouldn't have cut it.


So, yes this is a main reason why we can differentiate the dwarves. But there are literally millions of other options for differentiation that go beyond the "different colored cloaks."



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 8:10pm

Post #119 of 142 (510 views)
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In a one-film Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

That could have worked on screen. Focus on Bilbo, Thorin and Balin, and leave the others mostly in the background.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 8:14pm

Post #120 of 142 (506 views)
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That's a very encouraging quote from Philippa! [In reply to] Can't Post

I noted it myself. I hope they really do follow that lead.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 15 2012, 8:20pm

Post #121 of 142 (498 views)
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Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

It was cited as *a* reason for the designs - a defense for a choice, not as the *only* alternative to different colored cloaks. I'm sure they're well aware that there are different ways to go about things.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 15 2012, 8:21pm

Post #122 of 142 (512 views)
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On a completely different subject [In reply to] Can't Post

Does it look to anyone else like the landscape is rippling a bit in the very first shot (the green hills)?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 15 2012, 8:30pm

Post #123 of 142 (489 views)
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I think you're reading a different post [In reply to] Can't Post

Here it is again:


Quote
I can definitely see why people think the weird dwarf designs are OTT, but I think they're the very reason we're able to distinguish them all even before seeing the film. Different colored cloaks wouldn't have cut it.


So no, it wasn't described as *a" reason, and yes, "different colored cloaks" was implied to be the exclusive alternative. A strawman, basically.

But it's not a big deal. I am sure the poster didn't really mean that there are no other alternatives. That's why I included a smiley in my response. Smile


dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 15 2012, 8:46pm

Post #124 of 142 (484 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

If you freeze-frame "Why did you come?", you can see that the sun is setting behind the mountains. i.e. they're on the east side.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 15 2012, 11:47pm

Post #125 of 142 (483 views)
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I agree that in LOTR some supporting figures [In reply to] Can't Post

were not developed enough, through lack of time or whatever. But a lot of these characters did have legitimate backstories in the books. Whereas the Dwarves are having stories made up out of nowhere. Its like I feel there should have been at least 2 more LOTR films with all the things missing from the books, and instead there are two extra Hobbit films we dont really need. seems topsy turvy to me.
But what do I know? I hate Barbie and Kens pink palace. Crazy


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Nov 15 2012, 11:53pm)

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