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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A PREDICTION ...pure speculation on a certain pair of shape-changers based solely on the recently-released soundtrack

Oin K

Nov 15 2012, 6:50pm

Post #1 of 11 (1066 views)
A PREDICTION ...pure speculation on a certain pair of shape-changers based solely on the recently-released soundtrack Can't Post

I promised myself I would only listen to the Hobbit soundtrack ONCE before seeing the film so that I wouldn't spoil myself, so this is all based on first impressions. So bear with me here (HA!). Nevertheless, I couldn't help noticing some interesting things about the use of certain themes.

To start with, the Radagast theme shows up quite early, in fact before the trolls even, far too early for him to actually be interacting with our heroes in real time. That tells me that his story will run parallel to the main storyline, and for that to work, the two lines will have to intersect at some point. And if I'm recalling correctly, the Radagast motif resurfaces during "The Hill of Sorcery" and again towards the very end.

What it sounds like, then, is that Radagast will be moving the Dol Guldur plot forward through the first film. Perhaps he will be doing some scouting on behalf of the Council and discover that dark deeds are afoot in Mirkwood. Perhaps he tries to send a message to Rivendell about the urgency of the matter so that the White Council can begin formulating their plans. But we already know that Radagast himself isn't at Rivendell, so he must be otherwise occupied - perhaps with the Spiders, who have begun to stir and expand their territory in and around Mirkwood. Once he's dealt with them, he ventures west to try to meet up with his 'cousin' Gandalf, whom he has heard is on his way over the Misty Mountains.

On the way, he touches base with his fellow master of shapes Beorn, who has noticed increasing numbers of goblins and wargs in the hills under the mountains, and the Eagles. The three of them happen to notice smoke in the distance and head towards it to investigate. Now, we won't need to see any of their meeting, but it will be implied retroactively when they arrive in force just in time to rescue Gandalf, Bilbo, and the dwarves from becoming well-cooked meals for the wolves below.

Then Radagast, riding precariously on the back of his gracious Eagle host, will finally be able to rendezvous with Gandalf and inform him of the sudden increase in threat from Dol Guldur. Radagast will take the part of speaking for the Eagles after the party is rescued and brought to the eyrie (perhaps replaced by Rhosgobel?).

Now why do I think Beorn might be involved? Several reasons. The first is the brand-new horn theme that crops up for the first time around the "Out of the Frying Pan" track. My theory is that this is the first we hear of Beorn's theme, as we see him in bear form only, which will return in film 2 as he assists with the attack on Dol Guldur and again in film 3 when he hurls goblins across the rocks at the Battle of Five Armies.

Also, let's not forget that Beorn and Radagast are linked in the book, if only by a single line. I suspect Peter Jackson will seize upon this tenuous connection to make Radagast the go-between from Gandalf to Beorn. It may be on his recommendation that the party goes to visit Beorn in the first place. And what better way to set up the mystery of the Great Bear than to show a brief glimpse of him in his rage batting wolves and goblins around just before the dwarves are snatched up by the Eagles?

No direct explanation would be necessary here for the presence of the bear, just a few fleeting shots of a great dark shape mowing through the goblins below. Later, when they are recovering at the eyrie, Bilbo can ask Gandalf about it, and Gandalf, with a twinkle in his eye, can reply, "I'm not sure, Bilbo, but I take it as A Good Omen."

Exhausted then, Bilbo falls asleep and begins to dream of his home, as is described in the book. I can't help but imagine here an insane camera shot that moves from Hobbiton up over the Misty Mountains, down past where they are sleeping, and then up and over the massive forest of Mirkwood, past the ominous hills of Dol Guldur and the elf-king's hall, and as the Lonely Mountain rises up in the distance, the camera passes through the smoke pouring out of the front gate and into darkness, and then, after a beat, a great yellow eye snaps open, and the credits roll.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


Nov 15 2012, 7:18pm

Post #2 of 11 (500 views)
Quint's on set report suggested that the Company meets Radagast before the Trollshaws [In reply to] Can't Post

So it is very likely that they will actually meet Radagast, that Gandalf and Radagast will then go off to explore this "Hill of Sorcery," (probably somewhere in Fornost, or even the Barrow Downs) and that Gandalf will arrive in the nick of time to save them from the trolls.

So unfortunately, I think a large chunk of your theory is very unlikely...


Nov 15 2012, 7:20pm

Post #3 of 11 (473 views)
Dol Guldur is the Hill of Sorcery [In reply to] Can't Post

Has there been anything to suggest the name is being used for somewhere else?

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Nov 15 2012, 7:34pm

Post #4 of 11 (454 views)
Sorry, I meant "An Ancient Enemy" [In reply to] Can't Post

There are two hints that this may refer to somewhere in Fornost/Barrow Downs/somewhere in North Eriador.

1. It's placement on the soundtrack
2. On the WB official Hobbit scroll, the company is shown trekking up a steep moonlit hill immediately after the Trollshaws

However, the soundtrack placement may just mean that PJ will cut away to Dol Guldur...though I doubt it, and here's why.

Most evidence suggests that Radagast will indeed find his way west of Misty Mountains early on in the film, and that he will intercept Gandalf and the company somewhere in the trollshaws, with news of Dol Guldur's growing power. This, IMO will precede any hints of Sauron on Dol Guldur. Radagast and Gandalf will then explore the Downs, or Fornost, and find hints of "An Ancient Evil," which includes the Nazgul's open tombs.

Then, sometime after the Trollshaws, we will cut away to Dol Guldur, which is accompanied by the music in "The Hill of Sorcery."

(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Nov 15 2012, 7:34pm)


Nov 15 2012, 7:42pm

Post #5 of 11 (458 views)
Beorn won't be in film 1. [In reply to] Can't Post

Confirmed by Persbrandt himself.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Nov 15 2012, 7:49pm

Post #6 of 11 (459 views)
Doesn't necessarily mean [In reply to] Can't Post

We won't catch a glimpse of his CGI bear form...


Nov 15 2012, 7:54pm

Post #7 of 11 (434 views)
good point [In reply to] Can't Post

He wouldn't be credited as a part of it if they used a quick glimpse of his Bear form. It's a definite possibility. Could be that only Gandalf sees it.


Nov 15 2012, 8:00pm

Post #8 of 11 (411 views)
When would this take place? [In reply to] Can't Post

During "Into the Fire"? I wouldn't like the change. The Dwarves meeting with Beorn is an iconic part of the book. Introducing Beorn sooner means a major re-write of this scene.

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Grey Havens

Nov 15 2012, 8:50pm

Post #9 of 11 (375 views)
Could be a forshadowing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Like, we (the audience) see Beorn in his bear form, but the characters don't Smile

No, I don't think that actually happens, but it is a possibility

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


Nov 15 2012, 9:10pm

Post #10 of 11 (377 views)
True... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I cant see bear-Beorn do any talking with Radagast as the OP suggests.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

The Shire

Dec 2 2012, 4:50pm

Post #11 of 11 (197 views)
Article Beorn/Persbrandt [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure if this here on the right place and it is in Swedish but I think it is very interesting:




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