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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A reminder to be careful about linking to copyright breaches.
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Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 11 2012, 6:25pm

Post #1 of 52 (1214 views)
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A reminder to be careful about linking to copyright breaches. Can't Post

In the last couple of days we've removed three discussion threads that linked to scans or photographs of entire publications. It is one thing to post saying, "I have this magazine with a great 10-age spread on The Hobbit, and here's a link to a single photo that blew my mind", and quite another to link to a scan of each one of the 10 pages.

Please be judicious about what you post - and if you're uncertain whether something breaches copyright, ask an admin and we'll make a call for you.

Thanks for your help with this.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 11 2012, 6:31pm

Post #2 of 52 (708 views)
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You're no fun... [In reply to] Can't Post

Party pooper Tongue


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Nov 11 2012, 6:34pm

Post #3 of 52 (685 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

at least we have them available for our viewing pleasure now Wink

Im loving the water colours and the bag end shot of bilbos bedroom and abulition pots Smile

Dwarves having dinner at rivendell ! Haha, veggies and leafs for dwarves Heart


(This post was edited by Lusitano on Nov 11 2012, 6:37pm)


Elutherian
Rohan


Nov 11 2012, 6:57pm

Post #4 of 52 (664 views)
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Remember: Sharing IS Stealing! [In reply to] Can't Post

This message was brought to you by the billionaires who hate poor people foundation and the FBI.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


The Grey Elf
Gondor

Nov 11 2012, 7:00pm

Post #5 of 52 (646 views)
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Bilbo's Calendar [In reply to] Can't Post

Has Frodo's birthday marked on April 10th. So was this picture taken during the old Bilbo frame?


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 11 2012, 7:16pm

Post #6 of 52 (604 views)
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Eh? April?! [In reply to] Can't Post

What are they playing at now!

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 11 2012, 7:39pm

Post #7 of 52 (609 views)
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I wouldn't call [In reply to] Can't Post

magazine companies billionaires - not with the way print advertising is going. When they produce a product, they're entitled to get the benefits of sales rather than have them undermined.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 11 2012, 8:21pm

Post #8 of 52 (566 views)
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It's not just corporations that make money off magazines... [In reply to] Can't Post

writers
editors
photographers
graphic artists
newstands
bookstores

are others. I happen to have friends who do those first three and try hard to make a living doing them. I do the fourth (although not for a magazine) and I don't make a living at it.

So, when one stiffs the corporation one also stiffs everyone who works for that corporation. One way or another... or at some point down the line. With enough loss in sales, either the magazine doesn't pay out royalties (although I think that's uncommon for magazines, the concept applies to other copyrighted material), or it cuts down on staff, or it decides not to publish something, or it goes out of business.

Sometimes, what we do privately, in a discreet manner is different than what we do publicly in a way that reflects on everyone associated with this site, whether they be staff or visitors. We have had quite a few prominent (in the area of Tolkien, anyhow) authors, artists, and other creative entities visit and contribute to our site. Can they do that if rampant copyright violations are openly accepted? I fear not.

By my reckoning, TORn is fairly lenient with copyright issues. We are allowed, for example, to link to any YouTube video out there without any determination if it violates copyright. We are also allowed to link to any number of sites with leaked material.

When we (the members of the message board) are asked politely not to do something, I figure it's worth respecting.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


VoronwŽ_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 11 2012, 9:09pm

Post #9 of 52 (483 views)
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I strongly agree // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Carne
Tol Eressea

Nov 11 2012, 9:25pm

Post #10 of 52 (505 views)
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A question [In reply to] Can't Post

On the frontpage of TORn there is now a link to 66 behind the scenes pictures, taken from the same gallery I posted (which was removed). Why is that?

I'm not trying to start something, just curious Smile


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 11 2012, 9:30pm

Post #11 of 52 (513 views)
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You'll have to put that question [In reply to] Can't Post

to those who load stories on the home page. You can contact them via spymaster@theonering.net.

I'm operating under instructions we've been given about copyright - I'm trying to clarify what's happening here.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 11 2012, 9:37pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 11 2012, 10:09pm

Post #12 of 52 (456 views)
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Thought the same thing Carne [In reply to] Can't Post

One hand may not know what the other does here. But it is very hard to be an enthusiastic fan without running into these issues. I have a feeling The Hobbit fandom may be a special challenge for WB because of all the networks which are just waiting for those bones to drop. For the most part, everyone simply wants to help everyone else enjoy the event. We will see how WB handles this one. If the links stay up I guess it is acceptable.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 11 2012, 10:33pm

Post #13 of 52 (433 views)
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Oh-oh... [In reply to] Can't Post

Stop messing with my favourite story, PJ! Frodo has a very famous birthday, you can't just change it Unsure


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 11 2012, 10:40pm

Post #14 of 52 (428 views)
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Interesting thing about the Elrond pic [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like they're fixing the RED's "red-eating" flaw by lighting the set with red filters. Smile


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Nov 11 2012, 10:45pm

Post #15 of 52 (400 views)
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Wait... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Everyone knows Frodo's birthday is September 22, and on a Thursday on the day of the long-expected party. PJ can't change that, though it was never mentioned in FotR that it was Frodo's birthday as well.

'What are we holding on to, Sam?'
'There's good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for!'


'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!'



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 11 2012, 11:59pm

Post #16 of 52 (396 views)
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I don't think [In reply to] Can't Post

The person who posted it to the Home Page realized it's from the same source. We're trying to clarify now.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





titanium_hobbit
Rohan


Nov 12 2012, 12:15am

Post #17 of 52 (384 views)
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it's all good! it's not Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post

But Drogo on the calendar.

the drogo could look like frodo - there is a vertical stroke in both d and f, the ro o are the same, and a round body of either the d or g that can be hard to see. But it's drogo, not frodo.

TH


Hobbit firster, Book firster.


Have you explored all of TORN's forums?


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Nov 12 2012, 12:18am

Post #18 of 52 (377 views)
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Thanks for clarifying [In reply to] Can't Post

It didn't sound like PJ to venture that far from Tolkien Smile

'What are we holding on to, Sam?'
'There's good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for!'


'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!'



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 12 2012, 12:36am

Post #19 of 52 (394 views)
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The answer [In reply to] Can't Post

is that TORn won't post those pics on our site, nor link to them directly from our site (we've received several direct links via our spymaster email and have not posted them), which is why the earlier thread here that linked directly to them was deleted. In the case of the current Home Page story, we're reporting on news from another site, not linking to the pics themselves. We're also revising our story to add a link to Amazon where people can buy the actual book. That way:

1) we hopefully help the authors and artists of the book

2) WBs lawyers will go after the sites linking to the pics directly, and/or the person who ripped them, and not us (an extremely important point when you're an all volunteer, not-for-profit organization).


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 12 2012, 1:45am

Post #20 of 52 (365 views)
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Sneaky TORn, very sneaky [In reply to] Can't Post

And morally ambiguous. Cool Given that answer, I will wait a few weeks before adding too many to my own gallery to make sure those other sites are still in business. Hardly matters of course, since everyone already has all 150 in their facebook galleries anyway.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


VoronwŽ_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 12 2012, 1:54am

Post #21 of 52 (331 views)
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Yeah, he generally gets the minor details right [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just the major character qualities that he messes with. Tongue

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 12 2012, 3:53am

Post #22 of 52 (311 views)
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We took the link out of the story and, instead, linked to where people can purchase the book [In reply to] Can't Post


And, for the record, I'd much prefer being 'morally ambiguous' than out-and-out promoting, and posting directly to, material that almost certainly violated the fair use clause of copyright law
the second it was shared publicly. As I suspected, the only reason we posted the link to the 60 pics is because the number was different from the original 150 and they came from a different source, thus the person who posted the story thought they were new/different pics. As it's the end of the weekend here, it took us a while to sort it all out, but I definitely think we did the right thing in the end. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 12 2012, 4:00am)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 12 2012, 5:38am

Post #23 of 52 (294 views)
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Yep much better... [In reply to] Can't Post

...to give the author the spotlight and book link. The only thing is, there is still a direct link to that gallery at the bottom of the page under "Source:" if anyone cares.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 12 2012, 8:22am

Post #24 of 52 (274 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

Ordinary people have put work into the books - most particularly the writers. If the public don't buy the books but rely on illegal scans, those are the people who get hurt. Writers who depend on royalties from sales. Designers and other production folk at the publishing houses who will have been paid for these books but will suffer in the future when the publishers pull out of other projects because they haven't earned out on these books. Publishing is in a real crisis at the moment and attitudes like yours don't help.

Copyright protects ordinary people's livelihood. It's just a cop out to say it's only 'billionaires who hate poor people'.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 12 2012, 8:40am

Post #25 of 52 (248 views)
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Phew! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!


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