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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Warg appearance
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elevorn
Lorien


Nov 9 2012, 3:43pm

Post #1 of 70 (1241 views)
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Warg appearance Can't Post

In light of the discussion about the new images with the Wargs in them, I thought we might revisit the idea of what a warg is in order to discuss what you think a warg should look like. I know this has been discussed in some other threads but not really an official discussion.

My theory of what a warg should look like stems from my thoughts on how evil twists everything into something unnatural. I personally think that they are on the right track. Wargs should resemble wolves but be something much more evil and twisted looking. Similar to what was done with elves being twisted into a mockery of the elves, the wargs have been twisted from wolves. Granted the hyena looking things from the LOTR movies are not quiet what I think, but I like the idea that Saruman bred them specially for his guys, though that doesn't quite add up when we see Ole Marshmallow face in ROTK riding one, still i will take that theory. From what I've seen from the Hobbit I think they are on the right track, what are your thoughts? What should a Warg look like? How do you overcome the CGI look (just a side question as I have seen that a lot on these boards)?



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 9 2012, 3:47pm

Post #2 of 70 (757 views)
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I like the new look a lot [In reply to] Can't Post

However, the CGI is looking much, much more obvious than it did in LOTR, perhaps because of high res digital. This could be a serious problem for me.


elevorn
Lorien


Nov 9 2012, 3:52pm

Post #3 of 70 (715 views)
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for me [In reply to] Can't Post

If it isn't a real creature I will always see the CGI, which is why I have trouble with the Hedgehog CGI in that I don't see it, its a real creature so my brain just accepts it as real. The wargs will look CGI to me and that is never a problem. I know they don't exist and that what I am seeing is state of the art animation, I guess I have subconsciously trained myself to ignore it and enjoy it for what it is.



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 9 2012, 3:54pm

Post #4 of 70 (724 views)
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I very much doubt it's because of high res digital. [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact, people on the production seem to think because of 48fps the digital creations seem to better integrate into the whole.

I disagree, btw. There are instances in LOTR where CGI (and bigatures) looks obvious as well. I guess it's the same as people claiming in the old days movies were better. They only remember the good ones.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 9 2012, 3:55pm)


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 9 2012, 4:01pm

Post #5 of 70 (716 views)
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I think that the more CGI we see [In reply to] Can't Post

the easier it becomes to spot.

I like the look of the warg - it's almost exactly how I imagined it; but I think it would have been better achieved using animatronics (i.e. puppetry).

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan

Nov 9 2012, 4:06pm

Post #6 of 70 (677 views)
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Have some faith in PJ [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a 500 million dollar production.It's bound to look good.Wink

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 9 2012, 4:06pm

Post #7 of 70 (696 views)
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I strongly disagree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In a still picture animatronics would look good but in motion not. Or rather, we wouldn't even get a scene like the one depicted in the still (it'll probably involve a lot of motion with the whole of the warg and rider in frame) because it would be impossible with animatronics.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 9 2012, 4:08pm)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2012, 4:07pm

Post #8 of 70 (683 views)
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CGI is a tricky beast [In reply to] Can't Post

There's only one movie I've seen where I couldn't tell the effects were effects, and that was District 9. Awesome story as well.

With everything else I've seen, I can pick out the CGI. That being said, unless it's really horrible, it doesn't take away from the movie. But I grew up with really horrible special effects, watching old movies and the stuff from the 70's and 80's not being much better - so I have a certain acceptance for special effects and don't expect them to be 100 percent realistic.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Nov 9 2012, 4:08pm

Post #9 of 70 (695 views)
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The 4K/48fps actullay makes the CGI look more real [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially as the CG department have to do much more work than with LOTR.

I remember those who attended CinemaCon said how real the trolls looked due to the high resolution and framerate.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Nov 9 2012, 4:21pm

Post #10 of 70 (665 views)
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Well anything has to be better than Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

doing a back-flip onto a horse. Even 10 years ago it was silly. Crazy


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 9 2012, 4:25pm

Post #11 of 70 (631 views)
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I'm not bothered. [In reply to] Can't Post

I grew up on 1970's Dr Who with wobbly cardboard and silver-sprayed wet suits.

I can suspend my disbelief however ropey the effects.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


imin
Valinor


Nov 9 2012, 4:29pm

Post #12 of 70 (612 views)
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As long as they look better than the Hyenas from LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

then i dont mind. I havent seen the new photos of the wargs though i did catch a glimpse of them in the trailer and that long poster/scroll thing.

To me going from those images they look much more wolf like which is a good thing, but also just different enough so as to separate them from people going, 'oh its just an ordinary wolf'.

As for CGI. if i have seen the animal in real life then the CGI looks fake - so hedgehog to me is fake looking as are the eagles from lotr. However if it is a mythical/fantasy creature then i have no real world animal/object to compare it to mentally and so my mind seems to accept it much more easily. I havent seen enough of the wargs moving around on film to say whether they look real or not - i dont think a photo can make you say one way or the other.


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Nov 9 2012, 4:30pm

Post #13 of 70 (636 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Bloom actually did that flip. It's a stock trick that almost all stuntmen can do!

Anyway. I think the new Wargs look awesome! Not exactly as I imagined them, but really cool!

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan

Nov 9 2012, 4:32pm

Post #14 of 70 (639 views)
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No he didn't.sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

He had a broken hip so he couldn't get onto his horse so they cgi'd him flipping onto it.Wink

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Nov 9 2012, 4:33pm

Post #15 of 70 (610 views)
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I didn't know that! [In reply to] Can't Post

When did he break his hip? Well. It's POSSIBLE for him to do that at least. Tongue

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 9 2012, 4:35pm

Post #16 of 70 (611 views)
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A warg's a warg, to me [In reply to] Can't Post

But I can't explain it. Half wolf, half dog, half hyena. I don't think the ones in the trilogy were that bad - had the actual CGI been better, then people might've liked them more.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Nov 9 2012, 4:37pm

Post #17 of 70 (604 views)
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I'm not entirely sure you are joking! [In reply to] Can't Post

You know he didn't right?

LR


imin
Valinor


Nov 9 2012, 4:39pm

Post #18 of 70 (570 views)
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No he really did :p // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan

Nov 9 2012, 4:41pm

Post #19 of 70 (579 views)
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Broken rib, sorry. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WymG1Y52CTE

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2012, 4:56pm

Post #20 of 70 (523 views)
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wow. I'm loving your ideas and analysis here concerning the wargs of middle-earth: (which people thusfar seem to have looked over in your post) [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
My theory of what a warg should look like stems from my thoughts on how evil twists everything into something unnatural.




You're onto something here, and I love that theory. Although technically there is no mention of wolves being taken by Melkor and being warped and perversed, the principle remains the same.
Firstly there is nothing that Melkor could *create* but he could only take and perverse something that was already created. More importantly, anything with evil-origin in middle-earth could not be beautiful (if not in a superfical sense then most certainly in an inner sense).
Melkor and Saruon could never (sub-)create something of goodness... therefore wargs -should- have twisted and sinister appearances, something which wolves -overall- don't have....

Though there are people who do find them sinister... I for one strongly disagree. They might be fearsome, but not ugly and evil per se (in the stereotypical sense).

Brilliant ideas here Cool

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


(This post was edited by Xanaseb on Nov 9 2012, 4:59pm)


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 9 2012, 4:58pm

Post #21 of 70 (511 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Silly....but to a 14 year old, it was pretty awesome!! Even now I still enjoy it...although the shield slide was a bit too far ;)

My fav will always be Amon Hen where he stabs the Uruk in the eye with an arrow, pulled it out and then fired it into another Uruk! That blew my mind Sly

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2012, 5:01pm

Post #22 of 70 (520 views)
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Same here! District 9 was so real to me. I was sucked in ccompletely. (apart from maybe when that Shaman guy got an exploding bullet to the brain o.O O.o)// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


elevorn
Lorien


Nov 9 2012, 5:04pm

Post #23 of 70 (488 views)
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thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

I was sure somewhere in the SIL or HOME there was a mention of how Melkor twisted all sorts of creation to fit his image and mockery, but I have no idea where, it just fit that if he did that with elves to thumb his nose at everyone why not with wolves and wargs. he used the Carcaroth in the story of Beren and Luthien and its origins were twisted by his devices to make that great creature.

Wolves are by nature absolutely beautiful to see in the wild. I had the pelasure of seeing them when they were reintroduced into the wild in western Montana as a kid. It is haunting to hear them howl, but I never felt fear or any ferocity from them, though I am sure if I cornered one i would definitely get that side of them.

Wargs are not suposed to be pretty. They are fearsome, dangerous and genuinely want to hurt you. that is if they were real.



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2012, 5:11pm

Post #24 of 70 (480 views)
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oh extra quote I forgot to add: [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Similar to what was done with elves being twisted into a mockery of the elves, the wargs have been twisted from wolves




(which there's no evidence for, but is a fascinating propostition!)

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 9 2012, 5:18pm

Post #25 of 70 (491 views)
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Too soon to tell [In reply to] Can't Post

At least for me. I haven't even seen a trailer on screen, just the much lower quality that I can see on my computer, and stills taken therefrom. Until I can see the actual film in all its glory, I'm not even going to think about judging how the CGI looks in comparison to LOTR.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire

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