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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Could we see the Barrow Wights in AUJ?

malickfan
Gondor

Nov 6 2012, 1:35pm

Post #1 of 17 (1185 views)
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Could we see the Barrow Wights in AUJ? Can't Post

(After going slightly off topic in the LOTR forum I decided to exapnd on the post here)

Not sure if this has been discussed before, and I'm sure people have got better theories than me...but what are the chances of seeing the Barrow Wights in the Hobbit film?

The evidence for:

-We know AUJ is over 160 minutes long-that suggests some padding between the shire and trollhills-even with the eagles and Goblin town it would be a bit action light otherwise, and audiences make get a little bored with the earlier parts of the film merely retreading the parts of Arnor seen in FOTR.

-We also know that Sylvester Mcoy (Radagast) shot some sequences with the dwarves and Bilbo (which seems a bit strange if Radagast is tied up soley in the Dol Goldur storyline...and I do get a definite 'Bombadil' oddness aura off Radgast) -though this could just be a quick meet and greet.

-And of course that whole 'Dunedain tomb raiding' sequence is in the film- which smacks of an oppurtunity to sneak the barrow wights in-perhaps the barrowights are the ringwraiths not yet at full power?-aren't their spirits bound to the one ring and suaron's power?- i.e the Barrow Wights could be the Nazgul on 'power saving' mode?.

-I can't remember who posted it but supposedly there was a list of locations featuring in the Hobbit films, and the Weather hills and Barrow Downs were both listed (though that may be my mind playing tricks on meUnsure).

-It could be pretty cool! and links with the Dol Goldur stuff.

The case against

-Arguabaly contributes nothing to the storyline, and drags out the first film (Comments from cast members suggest it's quite a fast moving film)

-If the Barrow Downs stay in the same location on the map, and it is the dwarves and bilbo who encounter them, it would render his actions in (and the comedy of the trolls at) Trollshaws a bit out of place.

-Cutting and pasting scenes from LOTR may be a step too far for some fans

-It's quite a dark, famous chapter from LOTR, and might not work with the Hobbit's tone.

-It's yet another subplot/ race to set up, and draws attention away from the main plot.


I personally don't want to see them in the hobbit (it is irrelevant to the story, I'd much rather see more time spent expanding on stuff from the book, and I'd feel very uncomfortable about PJ and Co copying and pasting Tolkien's work from book to book) but as this will be PJ's last oppurtunity to do Tolkien (hopefully...I DO NOT want to see the Sillmarillion adapated...but that's another story) and by his own admission he's incapable of making short films...I wouldn't be surprised to see them in it.

Your thoughts? Do you want to see them in or not?

Do you have stronger evidence than me? (Coudl they be saved for film 2 or 3?)

...And why does 'Tolkien' come up as a spelling error?

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 6 2012, 1:51pm

Post #2 of 17 (521 views)
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Barrow Wights YES Barrow Downs NO [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't want Thorin & Co. to pass the Barrow Downs... why should they? They can use the Great East-West Road (which is an old dwarven road if I remember it correctly). There are no Nazgūl hunting them on the roads like in FOTR. No reason to take hidden and more dangerous ways through the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs to get east.

But the Barrow Wights could appear in the White-Council-subplot ... perhaps during the Battle of Dol Guldur? They're creations of the Nazgūl and Sauron so why not?

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


malickfan
Gondor

Nov 6 2012, 1:58pm

Post #3 of 17 (445 views)
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I think I'd be OK with that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandy and Radagast having a massive fight with the Barrow Wights...could be cool-I'm much more relaxed about what they do with Dol Goldur as there's so little written about it.

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 6 2012, 2:02pm

Post #4 of 17 (443 views)
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Very slight chance. Better odds of seeing Wights later... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin and Company have to pass north of the Barrow-downs on their way to Bree and the lands beyond. There is a chance that they could be drawn into exploring the Downs after hearing stories of treasure buried in the Barrows (and dismissing rumors of Barrow-wights as local superstitions) necessitating Gandalf to rescue them in much the same way that Tom Bombadil rescued Frodo and his companions in Tolkien's legendarium.

It might be more likely that we will see Wights utilized by the Necromancer as guardians beneath Dol Guldur.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 6 2012, 2:03pm

Post #5 of 17 (463 views)
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I want Dol Guldur to be as dark and as terrible as possible [In reply to] Can't Post

Mewlips, Barrow-wights, Vampires, Orcs, Wargs, Shapeshifters, Gorcrows.

Put everything in I say!

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dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 6 2012, 2:13pm

Post #6 of 17 (422 views)
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Not exactly, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the whole "Nazgul tombs" thing will be one of those homages Jackson is so fond of, with the Barrow-Downs episode as the inspiration. Except the Nazgul will replace the wights and Radagast will replace Bombadil.


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 6 2012, 3:33pm

Post #7 of 17 (389 views)
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I'm Lost In The Fog [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, so I have only been visiting these boards for about 2 months, and this whole "Nazgul tomb" thing has me totally confused. I've gathered that the White Council meeting glimpsed at Comic*Con had something to do with a Nazgul blade, but other than that, where can I find more information about the Nazgul tombs? Do we have set photos, action figures, LEGO sets, or official storybook info on it yet? I see everybody talk about it but I haven't found any kind of original source....Help?

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 6 2012, 3:40pm

Post #8 of 17 (375 views)
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The company doesn't have the to pass the Barrow Downs [In reply to] Can't Post

But Gandalf may travel there himself, in one of his "gone missing" episodes...


dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 6 2012, 4:18pm

Post #9 of 17 (358 views)
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Nothing is known [In reply to] Can't Post

except that Gandalf and Radagast meet there, infiltrate, discover the Nazgul are waking/have woken, and exit with a Morgul blade. Where precisely the tombs are located, who imprisoned the Nazgul there, and how they were freed is unknown.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Nov 6 2012, 4:19pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 6 2012, 4:28pm

Post #10 of 17 (319 views)
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I like the idea of Dwarves visiting the Downs because of the rumoured treasure / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2012, 4:33pm

Post #11 of 17 (345 views)
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IMO, in Film 1 we may see the disembodied spirits of the Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post

in a "faux barrow down" sequence...

But the actual wights are a distinct possibility for Dol Guldur in DoS.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 6 2012, 4:34pm

Post #12 of 17 (353 views)
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Google Says... [In reply to] Can't Post

I found some info that, in the movie-verse, The DĆŗnedain imprisoned them with magic when they defeated the Witch King centuries ago. Not exactly re-writing Tolkien as much as embellishing (form what I understand, Tolkien wrote that the Nazgul were "driven into the shadows" after their defeat. PJ & Co. are just giving us an explanation). I for one look forward to this! I'm very interested to see how this will all play out...

Thanks for your help!

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 6 2012, 9:20pm

Post #13 of 17 (283 views)
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Yes, actually. The company does have to pass the Downs... [In reply to] Can't Post

Shelob'sAppetite posted:


Quote

The company doesn't have the to pass the Barrow Downs



It does if they are traveling the Great East Road. The Barrow-downs are just south of the road, west of Bree. That doesn't mean that they have to explore the Downs, but Jackson has the option of including such an incident.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 7 2012, 11:20am

Post #14 of 17 (221 views)
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Picture of a Nazgūl statue [In reply to] Can't Post

When you ask for a clue... look at this image from the first Hobbit-trailer. Gandalf walks through a dark tomb-like place (Angmar, Dol Guldur or somewhere else) and you can see a statue of a Nazgūl on the right. Well that's not a clue for a Nazgūl tomb... but it's a clue for the appearance of the Nine perhaps ;-)

(Gargantuanly oversized image removed - Ataahua.)


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 7 2012, 6:22pm)


Fardragon
Rohan

Nov 7 2012, 1:08pm

Post #15 of 17 (145 views)
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Gandalf's [In reply to] Can't Post

battle with the Nazgul on Weathertop is another source that could be recycled for this sequence.

NB, could it be Weathertop? The Lego version has a cave underneath.

(PS, I think your pic may be a bit big)

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Arthael
Lorien


Nov 7 2012, 2:58pm

Post #16 of 17 (160 views)
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Creepy! [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh wow I hadn't noticed that but it's super cool! I'm interested to see how the Wraiths will be in this movie, since in FotR we're told that they're in disguise as riders in black. I'd LOVE to see some new designs for them! But from the look of the statue it will probably be the same, so I guess their disguise was....the horse :p UGH continuity issues!

I don't give a DAMN if it wasn't in the Hobbit, if I get to see a transplanted Gandalf/Nazgul battle, I will probably cream my pants in the theater!

Thanks for the image!!

"There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go."


sam90
Lorien

Nov 7 2012, 5:06pm

Post #17 of 17 (122 views)
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Barrow Wights [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see the point of seeing barrow wights in The Hobbit adapations, I mean to me they belong to FOTR... They weren't even in that film, so seeing them in The Hobbit would be very strange. All those elements missing from LOTR (Radagast, Barrow Wights, Bombadil ect) cannot be all put into the new trilogy to amend previous mistake of cutting them from LOTR. If that's the case this is not The Hobbit as it should be.

 
 

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