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weaver
Half-elven
Nov 6 2007, 3:55pm
Post #1 of 9
(2253 views)
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Screencap(s) of the Day -- Galadriel and Celeborn
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Cheating again, but it's really hard to pick just one screencap from the section I had today. And since poor Celeborn only gets a few lines, I didn't have the heart to not use him, though Galadriel gets to go first!
So here are two images for you to discuss:
Questions:
1. Comments on the Galadriel image? What do you particularly like or dislike about the composition of this shot?
2. What do you think about the swan boat? Does it work? Is a swan boat better "imagined" than seen? If they had showed it from the side, rather than the front, would she have looked like she was on an amusement park ride?
3. In contrast to floating Galadriel, we have Celeborn's "manly" talk with Aragorn about orcs and daggers. Is this deliberate "male/female" imagery on the part of the film makers? Is it part of transitioning the story from the "feminine" realm where a Queen rules to the "masculine" world where a King is needed?
4. Comments on Celeborn? To me, he comes across pretty "tough" in this scene. Do you agree?
5. Does it make sense that Aragorn would "not" know the orcs were going to be pursuing them -- that he'd need Celeborn to tell him this? And how does Celeborn know this anyway?
6. These images are from an EE scene, not included in the original version. From a film perspective, what do you feel is more effective -- for Aragorn to have advance warning that the Fellowship was being pursued? Or for the the audience to know about the threat (from the Saruman and Lurtz shots), and to just have the Fellowship "sense" something was wrong, but not know exactly it was?
7. Other comments on these images?
Weaver
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Nov 6 2007, 6:22pm
Post #2 of 9
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From a purely visual perspective...
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I love how there is no visible means of propulsion for Galadriel's boat - as if there is an army of ducks behind it paddling with all their might! It is, obviously, a lot smaller than Tolkien wrote it in the book, but it's a nice touch of the ethereal.
As for Celeborn, I like that we get to see some more of his character, but my attention always get caught on his hairy arms. Is he the *only* hairy Elf in Middle-earth?
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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barahir
The Shire
Nov 6 2007, 7:47pm
Post #3 of 9
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it creates more tension in the movie if the audience thinks aragorn doesnt know the fellowship are being followed. But i prefer the movie with the extended scenes just because of Celeborn getting more lines.
So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great wonder
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NoseOfSauron
Bree
Nov 7 2007, 3:33am
Post #4 of 9
(2028 views)
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Questions:
1. Comments on the Galadriel image? What do you particularly like or dislike about the composition of this shot?
2. What do you think about the swan boat? Does it work? Is a swan boat better "imagined" than seen? If they had showed it from the side, rather than the front, would she have looked like she was on an amusement park ride?
3. In contrast to floating Galadriel, we have Celeborn's "manly" talk with Aragorn about orcs and daggers. Is this deliberate "male/female" imagery on the part of the film makers? Is it part of transitioning the story from the "feminine" realm where a Queen rules to the "masculine" world where a King is needed?
4. Comments on Celeborn? To me, he comes across pretty "tough" in this scene. Do you agree?
5. Does it make sense that Aragorn would "not" know the orcs were going to be pursuing them -- that he'd need Celeborn to tell him this? And how does Celeborn know this anyway?
6. These images are from an EE scene, not included in the original version. From a film perspective, what do you feel is more effective -- for Aragorn to have advance warning that the Fellowship was being pursued? Or for the the audience to know about the threat (from the Saruman and Lurtz shots), and to just have the Fellowship "sense" something was wrong, but not know exactly it was?
7. Other comments on these images?
1) I much prefer Galadriel in her "unveiled" state - no hood or crown, basically, she's a much better elfqueen with bare hair :)
2) I think the swan boat works from the front. Just looking at how it's made, it would probably look totally ridiculous from the side.
3) Think single scene where Celeborn warns Aragorn of the danger pursuing them and the interesting contrast between Galadriel's appearance of having one foot in another world and Celeborn's of being much more worldy bumped up the elf lord to my top ten LOTR characters. Celeborn's "manly" talk with Aragorn definitely serves to transition us from the beautiful danger of Lothlorien to the rough-and-tumble, warfare-ish danger of the world outside.
4) Again, this one scene bumped up Celeborn to number 10 on my top 10 LOTR characters list :) I very much like this scene, because it helps to distinguish between the other-wordly power of the bearers of the Three and the much more worldly strength of the other elven lords (for readers who know that while Galadriel carries Nenya, Celeborn bears no ring of power).
5) It does make sense that Aragorn would not know about this - how could he have known, having been secluded in lorien for the past month? As for Celeborn knowing this, he doesn't really - all he says is, "You are being tracked." This could easily be deduced from the observations of outlying elven outposts.
6) I think the Fellowship still "senses" something is wrong... they really don't know what it is. The Hobbits are probably expecting black riders, the rest are thinking about orcs and goblins - but these Uruk-Hai, led by Lurtz, are something new. Overall, I prefer the EE version just because it gives Celeborn more lines than just "Tell me, where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him."
7) I love the interaction between Aragorn and Celeborn - especially because, if you pay attention to the vague elven geneology, Galadriel is actually Arwen's grandmother, which in essence makes Celeborn her grandfather... and Aragorn is in love with Arwen. It really adds more depth to the scenes with Celeborn/Galadriel and Aragorn when you realize that Aragorn is after their granddaughter :)
Looking from atop his great tower, he could see across the sea to the land of Middle-Earth. The sundering sea could not sunder his vision. From afar, he spoke with the mortals of the distant land. From across the sea, he stirred the fire of battle and kindled the candle of hope in the hearts of all who fought the shadow. From atop the his great tower in Valinor, Manwe spoke the words to Cirdan...
"My name... is Gandalf the Grey."
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dernwyn
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Nov 8 2007, 1:06am
Post #5 of 9
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Yes, it's a wonderfully ethereal shot
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Like a vision from some Arthurian legend, the Lady of the Lake glides out of the grey mist towards us. One of those "Where am I" moments.
Hairy arms? I never noticed that! Was probably looking too much at Aragorn... 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 9 2007, 1:42am
Post #6 of 9
(2008 views)
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1. Comments on the Galadriel image? What do you particularly like or dislike about the composition of this shot?
Very Camelot - Lady of the Lake - fantasy type of shot.
2. What do you think about the swan boat? Does it work? Is a swan boat better "imagined" than seen? If they had showed it from the side, rather than the front, would she have looked like she was on an amusement park ride?
I think that is why she is standing rather than sitting. If she were sitting, she would really look like she was in one of those kiddie rides with those little swans and frogs and animal figures to sit in.
3. In contrast to floating Galadriel, we have Celeborn's "manly" talk with Aragorn about orcs and daggers. Is this deliberate "male/female" imagery on the part of the film makers? Is it part of transitioning the story from the "feminine" realm where a Queen rules to the "masculine" world where a King is needed?
Hmmm... I don't know, Rivendell was ruled by Elrond. I would characterize this more as transitioning from mystical to earthly.
4. Comments on Celeborn? To me, he comes across pretty "tough" in this scene. Do you agree?
Yes, I would really like to have him on my side in a tight spot. I like him much better in this scene than in the scene where he asks about Gandalf in that sleepwalking manner. What were they thinking in that scene? Does anyone know, why did they leave his dialogue that way and not redo it later on in ADR? He speaks very well in this scene...
5. Does it make sense that Aragorn would "not" know the orcs were going to be pursuing them -- that he'd need Celeborn to tell him this? And how does Celeborn know this anyway?
Well, yes, Aragorn might have still had some hope that their whereabouts were unknown. And I like Celeborn in this scene, he's convincing, authoritative, gives good information, offers sound advice and even provides a useful weapon. I'd want Celeborn on my side in a tough spot any day.
6. These images are from an EE scene, not included in the original version. From a film perspective, what do you feel is more effective -- for Aragorn to have advance warning that the Fellowship was being pursued? Or for the the audience to know about the threat (from the Saruman and Lurtz shots), and to just have the Fellowship "sense" something was wrong, but not know exactly it was?
Well I guess from a plot standpoint it wasn't critical to have Celeborn tell Aragorn about the threat. All through FOTR they could basically count on being pursued by someone at any given moment, so it wasn't necessary to spell it out.
7. Other comments on these images?
I didn't notice Celeborn's hairy arms! I wished they'd given him more to say and do. And I like his necklace  .
Nice choice of screencaps, Weaver and very thoughtful questions! Thanks!
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Nov 9 2007, 2:16am
Post #7 of 9
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As for Celeborn's 'sleepwalking' way of speaking...
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I like him much better in this scene than in the scene where he asks about Gandalf in that sleepwalking manner. What were they thinking in that scene? Does anyone know, why did they leave his dialogue that way and not redo it later on in ADR?
I can't remember where I read or heard it, but both Celeborn and Galadriel were directed to speak slowly in English to emphasise that this isn't their first language and they don't speak it as freely as Elvish.
I don't think it comes across well - although it made for a great footer here a couple of Ages back, where someone quipped: "Where is my personality? For I much desire to use it."
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
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Nuradar
Rohan
Nov 9 2007, 2:23am
Post #8 of 9
(2029 views)
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1. Comments on the Galadriel image? What do you particularly like or dislike about the composition of this shot? Very mystical and beautiful. Fitting to her character and nature. 2. What do you think about the swan boat? Does it work? Is a swan boat better "imagined" than seen? If they had showed it from the side, rather than the front, would she have looked like she was on an amusement park ride? It's great. But I never realized how it would look from the side. Probably would look like an amusement park ride. 3. In contrast to floating Galadriel, we have Celeborn's "manly" talk with Aragorn about orcs and daggers. Is this deliberate "male/female" imagery on the part of the film makers? Is it part of transitioning the story from the "feminine" realm where a Queen rules to the "masculine" world where a King is needed? I'm not sure about the male/female dichotomy. I just thought that each was true to their character. 4. Comments on Celeborn? To me, he comes across pretty "tough" in this scene. Do you agree? I thought Celeborn's dialogue here (and delivery) were terrific! From our first encounter with him, we're left with the feeling that he is an extra-supernatural elf, more ethereal than other elves we've seen up to that point. But this scene allows us to see him in a more "real" and urgent context. I agree that he seems very tough. He's definitely serious, and I really like Marton Csokas' performance in the scene. 5. Does it make sense that Aragorn would "not" know the orcs were going to be pursuing them -- that he'd need Celeborn to tell him this? And how does Celeborn know this anyway? Didn't Legolas tell him at the Falls of Rauros that he sensed they were being tracked? That should have given it away. I always wondered how Celeborn knew this!!! Maybe Elrond communicated with him telepathically like he did with Galadriel in ROTK. Nuradar
(This post was edited by Nuradar on Nov 9 2007, 2:24am)
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 9 2007, 2:31am
Post #9 of 9
(2014 views)
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I love that footer! That's perfect ....
And I agree, it didn't come across that well. And come to think of it then, why then did they have Celeborn speaking normally in the EE scene?
Another mystery that'll have to wait until the 25th anniversary edition....
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