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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is the "cartoony" look of the footage a result of 3D?
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Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell

Oct 14 2012, 11:38am

Post #1 of 68 (2811 views)
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Is the "cartoony" look of the footage a result of 3D? Can't Post

Having just rewatched the LOTR trilogy it struck me how much more colourful the footage from The Hobbit looks than the original films. In my opinion this makes the pictures seem a lot less realistic and more cartoony (whether this is a good or bad thing/fits into the 'tone' of the book is open for debate, personally I don't have a problem with it).

However, I belief the main reason for this is to compensate for the light lose that comes from watching a film in 3D. I wonder if when we sit down to watch the film in the cinema in 3D this colourful/cartoony look will be much less obvious. This is mentioned in the blog about 3D in relation to Dwalin's skin tone and the colours of the trees in Mirkwood.

This leads me to the question - when the films are released on DVD in 2D or shown in 2D cinemas, will they be kept as colourful as the trailers or will Peter Jackson alter the images to make them less colourful?

I watched Avatar on TV recently and the skin tones of the Blue People seemed a lot brighter than they had when I saw it in 3D in the cinema. I haven't seen a lot of other 3D films (too expensive) so was wondering what people thought?


Mordae
The Shire

Oct 14 2012, 11:59am

Post #2 of 68 (1200 views)
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Post-processing? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah, it's probably mostly from the post-processing.
If you watch the newest Blu-Ray versions of LotR, you'll see that they went for the same kind of look in those.

From what I gather they've diffused the colors somehow to make everything look soft, while still retaining good borders and sharpness.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Oct 14 2012, 12:01pm

Post #3 of 68 (1216 views)
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There's no need to compensate at 48fps... [In reply to] Can't Post

When showing a film at 24 fps the screen has to stay at a fairly low light otherwise our eyes pick up a flicker between frames. At 48fps the projector can be brightened, so much so that even with glasses on the 48fps version will be much brighter than the glasses-free 2D version. So compensation with colour is certainly not necessary. Smile

However, when filming at 48fps, because the shutter on the camera is closing twice as much, then less light gets into the camera, and the image becomes darker. This is what they talk about in the VBlog. But after digital colour grading, this shouldn't make a noticeable difference.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 14 2012, 12:20pm

Post #4 of 68 (1092 views)
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I like the vividness of it! [In reply to] Can't Post

It draws me in. Evil

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Arandir
Gondor


Oct 14 2012, 12:45pm

Post #5 of 68 (1021 views)
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I don't think it's got much to do with 3D but [In reply to] Can't Post

rather more as a colour-grading stage. Probably PJ wants to make this a fresher, more younger Middle-Earth - making it look similar to LoTR but having that touch of something different at the same time.

Also, though, I believe the "cartoony" effect you're referring to is also due to the extreme use of CGI. That makes each shot look "glossier" and brighter than those of LoTR - thus the stark contrast. Personally, I like the different tone to set it apart from Rings - however, there seems too wide a gap between the two ... I guess we'll have to wait to see the whole picture (no pun intended!)


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell

Oct 14 2012, 1:10pm

Post #6 of 68 (1001 views)
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Thats interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

They obviously just want it to look brighter then.

I think I'm going have to have watch the film in 2D the first time around. I'll be so interested to see what the 3D is like that I'll focus on that and not the storytelling if I dive straight in.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Oct 14 2012, 1:32pm

Post #7 of 68 (1148 views)
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I really recommend everyone to read this: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.red.com/...igh-frame-rate-video
...especially if you're unsure which format you want to see The Hobbit in.

I personally think I'll see it in 2D, unless it's showing in 48fps near me. It's everything or nothing for me Smile


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Oct 14 2012, 1:50pm

Post #8 of 68 (951 views)
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I agree with DanielLB [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks different, yes, but it helps my brain to differentiate between LOTR feeling and HOBBIT feeling. I think this is important: to accept that this is another kind of story that will grow to be darker in DOS and TABA due to mirkwood and TBOFA.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 14 2012, 1:55pm

Post #9 of 68 (1018 views)
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Why do I care so much?! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm exactly the same QT. And deciding which format to first watch it in is a difficult choice. I just don't know what's best. Unsure

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dubulous
Rohan

Oct 14 2012, 2:22pm

Post #10 of 68 (917 views)
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Whatever the reason, I like it [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm no expert on 3D and how it affects the look, but I feel The Hobbit should look different. The book itself is very different from LotR in tone, and whether it's by design or something caused by the 3D, I only see it as a good thing if there's a difference in the movies as well. After all, at the time of The Hobbit, the shadow has not fallen yet - it's only starting to creep back into the world.


Marionette
Rohan


Oct 14 2012, 4:42pm

Post #11 of 68 (854 views)
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Deathly Hallows [In reply to] Can't Post

I donīt know whatīs the deal with colors, I think the general look of the trailer is becoz of the 3D, but I see nothing to complian about with colors.

I just wonder what about Deathly Hallows then, this movie was 3D as well (Thought, it was converted maybe) and itīs darker than anything. So dark than I canīt even watch it. They play this movie in TV/ HBO and so dark than it seems I am watching a black screen.

I am not into the darkness thing, I like brightness and color anywayz, I donīt have problems with that.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 14 2012, 5:30pm

Post #12 of 68 (906 views)
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IMO, the cartoonish quality is a result of OTT production design and over-use of CGI [In reply to] Can't Post

The artificial quality (make-up looking like make-up, sets like sets ETC) from what admittedly little we've seen is most likely a result of the digital/RED cameras. Not sure how the 3D's going to work out at this point.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Oct 14 2012, 5:55pm

Post #13 of 68 (806 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Some shots in the second trailer just look hokey, and I doubt it has to do with the digital format. There have been many authentic-looking films shot in digital.

It think it has more to do with color grading and abuse of CGI. This got more and more intolerable each time I played the second trailer so I only watch the teaser now Tongue (although you can see a similar issue in a couple of shots there as well.) And this dislike doesn't mean I'm against a more innocent look for The Hobbit at all - I just don't associate fairy tales to glossy, overly crisp imagery.


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 14 2012, 6:24pm

Post #14 of 68 (763 views)
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That's it [In reply to] Can't Post

not listening to doubters anymore...I'm 100% convinced.
The sample videos did it for me, as well as the explanation of the difference between this and the fake TV ("soap opera") look.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 14 2012, 6:54pm

Post #15 of 68 (731 views)
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It doesn't look cartoony to me. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?

Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Oct 14 2012, 7:19pm

Post #16 of 68 (713 views)
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Most likely due to the expanded use of CGI and digital photography, rather than grainy 35mm. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Oct 14 2012, 9:08pm

Post #17 of 68 (616 views)
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yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hamfast of Gamwich wrote: Having just rewatched the LOTR trilogy it struck me how much more colourful the footage from The Hobbit looks than the original films.

The Hobbit should be more colorful than the LOTR films.
It's based on a children's tale. In the spirit of Tolkien's work, I would expect it to be more humorous, colorful and, your words, "cartoony."


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 14 2012, 9:11pm

Post #18 of 68 (632 views)
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If that is the case [In reply to] Can't Post

Why are the digital/RED cameras being touted as a major plus? Is this not something that can be corrected in post?


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 14 2012, 9:46pm

Post #19 of 68 (669 views)
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It doesn't look anything like a cartoon to me... [In reply to] Can't Post

... which makes the question impossible to answer.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Oct 15 2012, 2:46am

Post #20 of 68 (506 views)
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TDOS [In reply to] Can't Post

It's TDOS unless you want people to believe the topic is about the ancient history of Microsoft products.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Oct 15 2012, 2:53am

Post #21 of 68 (489 views)
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RED [In reply to] Can't Post

Despite explanations generally on the web and from owain on this forum, there seems to be an excessive need for correction during production and processing of RED images. Leading edge technology is usually like that - more expensive and time-consuming at first until it becomes a mature commodity. It is not mature and I continue to get the feel of Emporer's Clothes about it, as I always have about 3D. So we have a double-whammy.

Hope I'm wrong.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Oct 15 2012, 2:57am

Post #22 of 68 (528 views)
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Narnia [In reply to] Can't Post

The cartoony look strikes fear into everyone who objects to the Narnia-ization of fantasy movies and who appreciate the realism of The Lord of the Rings. It may be that a generous amount of location shooting will help, but if it all has the look and feel of the dwarves running through the cave, the fear is jusified.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2012, 3:20am

Post #23 of 68 (520 views)
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It seems that PJ/the production team believe that the clarity/level of detail of the RED's [In reply to] Can't Post

out-weighs any artificiality that may arise in the imagery (but obviously this isn't the universal experience while watching RED footage). I may be incorrect, but didn't they add touches in post to footage screened at Comic-Con to bring it closer to film (can't remember if that was TH or another film shot on digital)? If they did that the entire film, it would probably alleviate complaints such as those from the Cinema-Con presentation, but would kind-of defeat the purpose of shooting with emerging technology, so I don't know...hopefully they'd find a way in post to keep the clarity while obscuring obviously false sets ETC (color grading would seem to be a good start to this).

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 15 2012, 3:29am

Post #24 of 68 (479 views)
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Could type out the whole name [In reply to] Can't Post

but that would waste 10 seconds...

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 15 2012, 3:46am

Post #25 of 68 (537 views)
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Anyone who was expecting [In reply to] Can't Post

"The Hobbit" to be "The Lord of the Rings" has to be sorely disappointed. Further I would say that one should look to Cameron's "Avatar" rather than the Narnia films for the look of the Hobbit movies. J.J. Abrams used the Red to film parts of his movie "Super 8". The footage was blended with the footage shot on film stock so skillfully that you could not tell the difference.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket


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