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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Why everybody thinks ... [possible spoilers]
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Apatcha
The Shire


Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm

Post #1 of 53 (3886 views)
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Why everybody thinks ... [possible spoilers] Can't Post

that Radagast is going to die?

In some other posts here I have on countless times read about Radagast's supposed death and I just can't understand why is it so. Are there any official informations confirming this? Is it just a way how to explain Radagast's absence from LOTR movies?

[edited to remove possible spoiler(s) from subject line]

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates!
So, carefully! Carefully with the plates!

(This post was edited by Altaira on Oct 12 2012, 11:18pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 7:17pm

Post #2 of 53 (1439 views)
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No confirmation [In reply to] Can't Post

But plenty of reasons why (and how).

- Gandalf's FOTR staff is almost identical to Radagast's TH staff.
- Radagast is missing from the LOTR trilogy.
- If the Battle of Dol Guldur is going to seem threatening enough, then someone has to die. Thus Radagast is the obvious choice.

Then there's the whole moth business ...

Wink

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Danielos
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 7:24pm

Post #3 of 53 (1514 views)
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A problem with Istari [In reply to] Can't Post

It does seem pointless for Sauron to kill off an Istari though. If Gandalf the Grey came back as the White, what stops Valar to send back Radagast the Brown as a new, all-improved, well-dressed wizard?


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Oct 12 2012, 7:25pm

Post #4 of 53 (1368 views)
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I agree with you, I don't think he will die [In reply to] Can't Post

The audience for one would be very annoyed if it happened as it would be unnecessary. Plus how could you kill off the utterly fantastic Sylvester McCoy?

I won't be too bothered if he dies well, maybe he disappears (like old Ben in Star Wars), or turns into the moth (PJ may not be able to resist that one, although there would be no need to kill him in that case).

Here are the main reasons why I don't think Raddy will die:

Reason 1: I know the staff looks identical to Gandalf's in FOTR, but look closely at Raddy's staff in the picture where he holds it two-handed. Now, ignoring the colour of the crystal, looking at the staff in detail shows that it is *not* the same staff (I may be in for a debate with this one, because I'm convinced it's not the same one).

Reason 2: Killing Radagast for the purposes of drama will only work if he's killed in film 1 or 2 (*spoilers* because if he dies in film three it will undermine the deaths of Thorin, Fili and Kili. *end of spoilers*). Therefore he's have to die in film 1 (we wouldn't have enough time to get to know the guy if this happened, so it's unlikely) or film 2 (the only viable option).

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


dave_lf
Gondor

Oct 12 2012, 7:25pm

Post #5 of 53 (1323 views)
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Staves [In reply to] Can't Post

In FotR, Saruman takes Gandalf's original staff from him when he takes him captive and that's the last we ever see of it. If this is actually Radagast's staff left behind after his death and kept by Gandalf in his memory, that's an awfully ignominious way for its arc to end.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Oct 12 2012, 7:27pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 7:28pm

Post #6 of 53 (1434 views)
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Because his quest/task was done? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Valar deemed he had succeeded (or failed ...?)

Perhaps he regenerated into the Moth?

He doesn't have to become Radagast the Grey/White/Pink after he dies. It doesn't always work like that.

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 7:30pm

Post #7 of 53 (1248 views)
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I agree with reason 2. [In reply to] Can't Post

But that won't stop PJ. Wink

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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 12 2012, 7:34pm

Post #8 of 53 (1234 views)
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Whilst I don't go along with [In reply to] Can't Post

The "he must die so that we have a concrete reason for him not to be involved in LOTR" argument I could see him being killed off. Could be very moving.

LR


Danielos
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 7:44pm

Post #9 of 53 (1233 views)
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Yes, more deaths PLEASE! [In reply to] Can't Post

   
I think it is important that the villains should have some sort of success and accomplishment for us to respect and fear them. Why should we believe Sauron is this badass Dark Lord if he get his ass kicked over and over? In Sil, Morgoth/Sauron had several victories, which made them formidable enemies. I want this impression to be conveyed in these movies as well.

And don´t get me started on this silly dragon being unaware of his fatal weakness and killed by a single arrow! :(


Apatcha
The Shire

Oct 12 2012, 7:50pm

Post #10 of 53 (1227 views)
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Couldn't agree more [In reply to] Can't Post

Sylvester McCoy looks like such a nice guy, right? Even though he only appeared in vlog 8, you just have to love this guy. And have you seen his „spoiler" videos on Youtube?

I was also very happy, when we have finally seen his staff, so it could confirm it's not the same as Gandalf's FOTR staff. But then I though to myself, why to make them so similar, even though it's not the same. It's just mystery.

And If they really kill him, wouldn't it be at least relieving to see him transform into some other form? I don't personally like the moth idea, but how about sad, balladic change into a tree, like we have seen in his poster? So he can finally became one with nature, like he always wished. I think that something like that happened to Merlin, who was enchanted into a tree by his student.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 12 2012, 8:36pm

Post #11 of 53 (1282 views)
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I think this would need explaining [In reply to] Can't Post

no?

who determines who gets to come back and why, film audiences don't really know Valar's innerworkings...

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Oct 12 2012, 8:45pm

Post #12 of 53 (1325 views)
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Radagast doesn't die... [In reply to] Can't Post

He just walks into a blue, wooden box with a flashing light on top and disappears.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 12 2012, 8:46pm)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm

Post #13 of 53 (1181 views)
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That would be a hilarious exit for his character [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


Ardamírë
Valinor


Oct 12 2012, 9:09pm

Post #14 of 53 (1214 views)
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Because DanielLB keeps telling everyone he'll die! [In reply to] Can't Post

Really, though, nobody knows. One of the main reasons is that he's not in LOTR. I'd prefer a more ambiguous ending for him, myself.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


Spencissimus
Lorien

Oct 12 2012, 9:49pm

Post #15 of 53 (1102 views)
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I do see where it's all coming from either! [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast's staff might look very similar to Gandalf's FOTR staff, but it isn't the same.

Radagast is missing from the LOTR trilogy because he was cut, just like Tom Bombadil...I very much doubt PJ eliminated Radagast from the LOTR script thinking he was going to kill him off in the Hobbit if he ever made it.

I don't see how Radagast is the obvious choice for dying at Dol Guldur. Plus, I don't see why anyone major needs to die just to make it seem more threatening. Chances are, some elves from Rivendell/Mirkwood/Lothlorien that tag along are going to get wallopped (similar to Haldir's Elves in the Two Towers, who were pretty much totally wiped out in the film to avoid PJ showing the death of old men and boys imho).


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 10:16pm

Post #16 of 53 (1163 views)
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Gandalf could easily say his task was done. [In reply to] Can't Post

And wouldn't again walk again in Middle-earth.

That would work.

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 10:16pm

Post #17 of 53 (1103 views)
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Who's to say I don't have a secret source? [In reply to] Can't Post

*Looks around suspiciously*

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Foromir
Rivendell


Oct 12 2012, 10:21pm

Post #18 of 53 (1192 views)
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Here's my theory: Radagast will be overwhelmed and punished by the Necromancer... [In reply to] Can't Post

Who knows killing him would mean he could be sent back, as an even more powerful enemy. Instead, by some dark magic he turns him permanently into one of the weakest beings he can think of. As a moth, he deems Radagast rendered utterly powerless and obsolete. Well, we all know how that will actually end - it could make for a poignant arc for the brown Wizard. What do you think?


(This post was edited by Foromir on Oct 12 2012, 10:22pm)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 12 2012, 10:38pm

Post #19 of 53 (1173 views)
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CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean cheep cheep.

I'm a bird. Angelic

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 12:10am

Post #20 of 53 (964 views)
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hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I have my doubts that in a childrens or young persons film, they would kill off a cuddly animal loving character. It would be a bit sadistic. Obviously Thorin and Kili Fili will get a warriors send off, but Radagast is too sweet to die surely? he is also a powerful Istari in his own right and it would take a lot to bump him off. I dont see Radagast in a battle or tangling with the necromancer, it doesnt seem to fit in with his story. I do think he could be the Moth though.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Oct 13 2012, 12:52am

Post #21 of 53 (956 views)
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It's that pesky immortality... [In reply to] Can't Post

You've been granted the wisdom of the Eldar (aka S.P.O.I.L.E.R.S!!!!).

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Oct 13 2012, 12:53am

Post #22 of 53 (914 views)
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It's that... [In reply to] Can't Post

that mischievous talking purse, isn't it?!

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


duats
Grey Havens

Oct 13 2012, 1:30am

Post #23 of 53 (963 views)
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Simple [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf stayed true to his purpose. Saruman and Radagast did not.


Escapist
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 1:42am

Post #24 of 53 (970 views)
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porpoises [In reply to] Can't Post

Well who knows. Maybe it would be better to say that Gandalf stayed true to the Istari calling.
Anyway, it is a darn good thing that Gandalf got revived because otherwise there'd be none left would there?
Except ... maybe Radagast ... but apparently he was too foolish and "below" the likes of Gandalf and Saruman for such lofty consideration.
Or maybe he managed to dodge/pre-empt/avoid the kinds of attacks that would take him out.
In any case, less is said about him and he isn't around all that much ... it's anyone's guess what he might do after he was done passing messages along.
Poor shmuck ... distracted with all kinds of critters instead of properly attending to the important politics that were what his calling was all about after all.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Oct 13 2012, 3:15am

Post #25 of 53 (888 views)
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Sadly I doubt it. [In reply to] Can't Post

With me it's just a forlorn hope that he gets killed in his first scene, and then gets regenerated into someone who isn't Sylvester McCoy.

It's happened before, so you never know.

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