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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Riddles in the Dark flashbacks
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Gusev8
Bree


Oct 8 2012, 9:38am

Post #1 of 26 (1969 views)
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Riddles in the Dark flashbacks Can't Post

Do you think we will see a younger Smeagol in the flashbacks he gets thinking about his grandmother and everything else he remember when guessing the answer to the riddles ? And who should play the younger smeagol?


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 9:52am

Post #2 of 26 (820 views)
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Deagol, Smeagol and his Grandmother [In reply to] Can't Post

We've kind of discussed this a few threads down, here, but not in any amount of detail.

Thomas Robins who plays Deagol in the opening to ROTK does have a role in the new films. It hasn't been confirmed what role - he could be playing Deagol, or he could be playing someone else.

I quite like the idea of a flashback to Smeagol's younger days, as he gives the answer "eggses". It would add a lot of depth to the character, in my opinion. At the same time, it would be massively jarring for the riddle scene - it would remove pretty much all the tension. Perhaps it could be a EE scene?

Andy Serkis can play a younger Smeagol. They don't need to re-cast.

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Gusev8
Bree


Oct 8 2012, 10:01am

Post #3 of 26 (688 views)
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Option [In reply to] Can't Post

They could to it like this: You see the flasback and in a split second you go back to Gollum screaming and getting angry because of Bilbo making him remember that times.. Like they did in LOTR with ring; that creepy sound when Frodo wants to put of the ring


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 8 2012, 10:21am

Post #4 of 26 (634 views)
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I don't think flashbacks would work in this case... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would destroy the flow of the scene.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 10:28am

Post #5 of 26 (656 views)
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I wouldn't be surprised if it came later on... [In reply to] Can't Post

Even as a prologue sequence, like ROTK. It could begin with Smeagol in his youth, then cut to Gollum leaving the Misty Mountains.

Unimpressed

For the record, I don't like the idea. But is is very PJ!

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redgiraffe
Rohan

Oct 8 2012, 11:28am

Post #6 of 26 (574 views)
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I don't like the idea either [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Even as a prologue sequence, like ROTK. It could begin with Smeagol in his youth, then cut to Gollum leaving the Misty Mountains.

Unimpressed

For the record, I don't like the idea. But is is very PJ!


And while it is very PJ, I don't think he will do it.

A prologue scene of Gollum's history just wouldn't serve any purpose to the story.

In ROTK it did serve a purpose to the story telling. We end the TTT seeing Gollum planning something similar. And then ROTK opens with a scene showing us the murderous, dark side of Gollum and re-iterating the idea that his plan for this entire movie involves a sinister plot to lead the hobbits into a trap. So I think it was only used because it helped serve a purpose for the plot.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 11:30am

Post #7 of 26 (567 views)
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This is true [In reply to] Can't Post

And it's a good thing I'm wrong more often than not Wink

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stoutfiles
Rohan

Oct 8 2012, 1:15pm

Post #8 of 26 (560 views)
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Less is more [In reply to] Can't Post

We got a great flashback scene in RotK. Anymore and we overdo it.

Gollum is supposed to be a creepy character in the mountains who has a magic ring, nothing more. I'm afraid we'll be getting more Gollum outside of Riddles, though.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 8 2012, 2:48pm

Post #9 of 26 (469 views)
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Agreed less is more [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly hate the idea of seeing more Gollum or anything about him in these films. We learned all we need to know about him in LOTR, these films are about Bilbo and the dwarves NOT Gollum.

Quote
Gollum is supposed to be a creepy character in the mountains who has a magic ring, nothing more.

So true... so true, but since when have Peter Jackson and crew cared about things the way Tolkien wrote them when they seem to be able to write much better scenes. Crazy I can only wonder what horrible extra scenes we'll have to endure with Gollum in them FrownFrown



DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 3:09pm

Post #10 of 26 (478 views)
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They have 3 films to cover a very small book [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no way it's not going to be about Bilbo and the Quest of Erebor. It also gives time to expand on secondary characters - one of the best benefits of the 3 films. I'm not saying we need extra scene with Gollum, but additional scenes aren't always a bad thing.

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Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 8 2012, 3:14pm

Post #11 of 26 (494 views)
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All I would like to see... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is Gollum leaving the Misty Mountains at the end of TaBA, maybe in a sequence with Dain/Bard in a restored Erebor/Dale, Balin heading for Moria, orcs moving into Mordor, etc.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 8 2012, 3:30pm

Post #12 of 26 (446 views)
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I don't see it as a benefit [In reply to] Can't Post

I see it more as sidetracking a great story with material that never happened per the original tale. Angelic


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 3:44pm

Post #13 of 26 (443 views)
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It'll benefit characters, such as Dain and Bard [In reply to] Can't Post

But fair enough Smile

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Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 8 2012, 3:50pm

Post #14 of 26 (446 views)
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I can live with more backstory [In reply to] Can't Post

for Dain since Tolkien wrote some of it. Bard ehh I can take it or leave it but they will want to have the audience emotionally invested with him so it may not be a bad thing... But my biggest complaint would be Gollum since we already got enough info about him in LOTR and there really is no reason to show him after the riddles in the Dark sequence since everyone who has already seen LOTR knows he comes back and for those who don't they get that brief teaser in FOTR with him following the fellowship thru Moria... Sometimes less is more IMO.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Oct 8 2012, 5:04pm

Post #15 of 26 (391 views)
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I do as well [In reply to] Can't Post

Then again, I predicted a "Revenge of the Sith" ending to the third film, where every character is shown in their place for LOTR.

-Gollum leaving the mountains
-Saurman in Orthanc discovering the Palintir
-Sauron regrouping in Mordor
-Galadriel predicting bad things to come
-Something silly with Elrond and Estel
-Flash forward to Frodo/old Bilbo

Will PJ be able to resist? I doubt it, but we'll see.


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 8 2012, 5:29pm

Post #16 of 26 (414 views)
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I still think TABA will end with Frodo sitting against that tree, reading [In reply to] Can't Post

Though, of course, I would much prefer the book ending with Bilbo, Balin and Gandalf at Bag End. No way will Peter go with that ending... I don't' think he'll be able to resist showing Balin and company entering Moria.


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 8 2012, 5:32pm

Post #17 of 26 (398 views)
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For the answer eggses and resurgence of smeagol's past [In reply to] Can't Post

i think the dialogue betwteen the the gollum side and the smeagol's side could be enough. the smeagol side could have access to memories, and it could be unbearable to the gollum side. I think it's more likely than another flashback, the movie will already have plenty of them !


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 5:35pm

Post #18 of 26 (366 views)
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I definitely expect a mention [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no reason why there shouldn't be - this might be a way of doing it. Smile

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 5:38pm

Post #19 of 26 (377 views)
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That's how I expect the story to begin! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Frodo is reading Bilbo's memoirs. AUJ starts with old Bilbo and Frodo. Frodo skips off to read the book, perhaps reading aloud: "In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit". Cue "flashback" to Bilbo sitting in his garden.

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 5:39pm

Post #20 of 26 (397 views)
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"Something silly with Elrond and Estel" [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn, I am your father.

Nooooooooooooooo

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There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 8 2012, 6:04pm

Post #21 of 26 (352 views)
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do you keep that link handy DLB? [In reply to] Can't Post

for all the appropriate occasions? Laugh

Also, does that mean Aragorn and Arwen are brother and sister?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

(This post was edited by There&ThereAgain on Oct 8 2012, 6:05pm)


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Oct 8 2012, 6:05pm

Post #22 of 26 (364 views)
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I have a word-document on my computer with many such links! [In reply to] Can't Post

But that's just me... Blush

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse

(This post was edited by painjoiker on Oct 8 2012, 6:05pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 6:08pm

Post #23 of 26 (370 views)
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Reply to "Do you keep that link handy DLB?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Nooooooooooooooo, but it is a very handy link to have Tongue


Laugh

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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 8 2012, 6:32pm

Post #24 of 26 (352 views)
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I really hope not [In reply to] Can't Post

It would totally disrupt the scene, IMO. We've seen as much of Smeagol's youth as we need to...BTW, if Thomas Robbins IS appearing in another scene, my guess is that it's as someone other than Deagol.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Oct 8 2012, 6:33pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 8 2012, 6:58pm

Post #25 of 26 (324 views)
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Smeagol's grandfather ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

He'll probably just be a background Hobbit. Or even Drogo?

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