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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My guess: Desolation of Smaug "where the action is"
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Oct 5 2012, 7:30pm

Post #26 of 67 (1033 views)
Oh right, I hadn't read the title of your post. Sorry ! // [In reply to] Can't Post


Eye's on Guard

Oct 5 2012, 9:48pm

Post #27 of 67 (1032 views)
Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I really haven't understood how floating down a river could be that climactic, even with elves shooting arrows, as has been suggested.


Oct 5 2012, 10:07pm

Post #28 of 67 (1047 views)
Climax [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe the climax was going to be an action sequence involving the escape from prison and subsequent river escape. Surely the prison escape would have been beefed up somewhat and floating down the river would have been the denouement.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


Oct 5 2012, 10:17pm

Post #29 of 67 (1039 views)
This looks pretty good to me! [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
The Desolation of Smaug

1. Plotting of the Orcs/Goblins, Thorin & Co. head for Beorn's house.
2. Beorn!
3. Farewell to Beorn - edge of Mirkwood
Gandalf's investigations of the Necromancer with Raddy, Beorn, Leggy/Tauriel (including a meeting of the FULL White Council)?
5. Thorin & Co. stalked through film by Fimbul the Hunter and Azog's forces
6. The whole Mirkwood passage, the river drama, the starvation, etc.
7. The Spiders, Dwarves captured, introduction of wood-elves culture, and Legolas, Thranduil and Tauriel.
8. Barrels out of Bond.
9. Arrival to Laketown
10. Introduction of Laketown culture and the Master, Bard and Alfrid.
11. Farewell to Laketown, into the "desolation"
12. The Battle of Dol Guldur, possibly final confrontation between Thorin & Co. and Fimbul's Orcs?

There and Back Again

1. Scouting the Lonely Mountain, eventually finding the secret entrance.
2. Bilbo seeing Smaug for the first time, stealing a cup/Smaug's wrath
3. Aftermath of Dol Guldur battle
4. Bilbo's second meeting in which he is spotted and has a long conversation with Smaug.
5. Smaug leaving the Mountain.
6. Bilbo & dwarves start going through all the treasure and exploring the mountain.
7. Smaug attacking Laketown, Smaug dies
8. Laketown refugees
9. The gathering storm, mobilizing Lakemen/Wood Elves/Orcs
10. Siege of the Mountain, a thief in the night
11. Battle of Five Armies
12. Aftermath of Battle, Thorin's Funeral, Refounding of Dale, Balin departs for Moria, hint of Sauron returning to/heading for Mordor
13. Other bridge elements concerning LotR (a touch the Hunt for Gollum, some Rangers guarding the Shire ETC?)
14. Bilbo's Back Again, auction outside Bagend, possible adoption of young Frodo/epilogue

IMO, Film 1 revolves primarily around setting out and surviving the Misty Mountains; it seems Film 2 around Mirkwood, Laketown and the Necromancer; and Film 3 around Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies. Of course, we don't know for sure what will land where until at least Late Summer/Early Fall of next year. Wink

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.

Lost Hobbit

Oct 5 2012, 10:17pm

Post #30 of 67 (1024 views)
What I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can imagine it like this

- Smaug's death
- A false illusion of peace (for audience)
- The results, destroyed Esgaroth.
- And after all chit-chat Bard and the others march to Lonely mountain. This is where DOS can end. Maybe we will see Lonely Mountain (again). This will look a bit like final scenes from first two films of Lotr, which focused on Mordor over horizon.

(This post was edited by Lost Hobbit on Oct 5 2012, 10:17pm)

Tol Eressea

Oct 5 2012, 10:41pm

Post #31 of 67 (996 views)
This is what I think as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

The last we see of him in DOS could be him flying towards Laketown, then open TABA with his attack.

As others have mentioned, the climax of DOS will probably be the attack on Dol Guldur.

(This post was edited by Carne on Oct 5 2012, 10:41pm)


Oct 5 2012, 10:57pm

Post #32 of 67 (1075 views)
Not necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post

TDOS could end in the desolation itself, as the company treks toward the mountain, or as Bilbo prepares to enter the secret door, or any other place prior to chatting with Smaug. Those are all possibilities, IMO.


Oct 5 2012, 10:58pm

Post #33 of 67 (993 views)
Of course, it is possible even Jackson don't when DOS will end. // [In reply to] Can't Post



Oct 5 2012, 11:12pm

Post #34 of 67 (1071 views)
I so love the Idea of our Dwarves diving into [In reply to] Can't Post

A Massive Pile of gold..thinking their Quest is accomplished.
Yet the Final Shot of Mr. MAGIFICENCE
storming to Laketown is just TOO..Juicey
Kinda cliffhanger.. a continuation to part three.

Visually the Humoungous Mound of treasure
(which we barely got a look at in Video diaries)
is gunna be so
Dazzling in 3D.

Bomby is already getting DragonSicknezzz..


Oct 5 2012, 11:22pm

Post #35 of 67 (1084 views)
me too Bombadil [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that false sense of security, the weird dizzying sickness that overtakes the dwarves, Bilbo's uncertainty and worry (growing mistrust of the dwarves) and longing to be home again.

I do not think it will come off as "cliffhangery," but more chilling and exciting in anticipation of film three!

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Oct 5 2012, 11:55pm

Post #36 of 67 (1066 views)
Thank you T&TA? [In reply to] Can't Post

Last week I read Allof-It. From Chapter IV
"Overhill and Underhill"

Once again after 20something
readings I couldn't put it down.

The thing that struck is how
Easily the Dwarves got depressed.

If it wasn't for Bilbo's Fearless CheerLeader
attitude about life.
Their quest would have been
a dismail Falure.

Tolkien instilled in Bilbo a
Positive Mental Attitude that
It..made anyone reading it
Emphasize with.

Bilbo has so many qualities that you
Or Anyone Worldwide.. WONDER Why?

he is considered
one of Literture's greatest Heros!

Finally expressed by Thorin on his

Bomby needs to take alot of tissue
in December..I getting teary-eyed..Now!

(This post was edited by Bombadil on Oct 5 2012, 11:59pm)


Oct 6 2012, 1:31am

Post #37 of 67 (1143 views)
The Two Towers ended with [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo, Sam and Smagol walking into the desolation of Sauron.

As soon as I saw the title The Desolation of Smaug I was rather certain that the movie would end with the company nearing Erebor, or maybe entering Dale. Also I was sure that the main part of the Dol Guldur plot would happen in it.

Considering the ending of each movie, the LOTR trilogy could be called:

FOTR - The Desolation of Frodo;
TTT - The Desolation of Sauron;
ROTK - The Consolation of Samwise.

And that says a lot about the approach of the filmmakers.

Eye's on Guard

Oct 6 2012, 1:51am

Post #38 of 67 (976 views)
This looks like a good way to do it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Winning at Dol Goldur is to winning at Helm's Deep/Isengard as roaming the skirts of the Lonely Mountain is to roaming Ithilien near Mordor

Also, if they want accurate titles,There and Back Again implies the company should reach their goal in the last film. "There" refers to Erebor/Smaug, not an unexpected argument and battle.


Oct 6 2012, 4:15am

Post #39 of 67 (992 views)
You know that LotR was structured on climaxes. I don't expect these to be different [In reply to] Can't Post

It is, in the end, and action movie whether you think that's proper or not. The first movie is all ready set to end on an exciting moment, perhaps with some gradual resolution at the end, but still in the midst of an exciting and pounding moment. The difference here, I suppose, is that the stakes are set far lower. No one even gets any bit hurt in this scene, just a little flustered, which is likely to carry through to the next film as well, but not ending on a literal nothing. People all ready complain that LotR is nothing but walking to a mountain. This would just fuel the flames.

What I'm thinking is that we will end after Smaug buries the crew. Two main reasons: It's an exciting cliffhanger, and the next movie is set up brilliantly. Think about this.

Prologue - Dale. The idealistic place of all races communing as one to a greater urpose. No desolation to be seen across the landscape, and Bard's ancestor rulin justly over his people. Suddenly, a shadow appears above, and the people look in horror as they recognize the figure of the great dragon, Smaug. They run, but cannot escape the relentless onslaught of the creature, watching in horror as their town is burned to ash. Cuts upon a crescendo to Laketown, now in the midst of the same situation, with Bard now frantically trying to get a view of the creature. They watch as the same terror inflicts them, and many flee across the shore in boats as they lament upon what has befallen them.

And then we know how the rest turns out Tongue But would that not be a beautiful parallel? Could rival RotK's prologue, if they did it in a somewhat similar manner. The action scene becomes immediately identifiable and relevant to the audience, who will think that the town was to suffer the same fate. All the while you wonder about our heroes, and once the dragon falls, you return to them for a recap and then discovery of the treasure.


Oct 6 2012, 5:05am

Post #40 of 67 (935 views)
Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

I think TDOS will end with the company walking through the desolation, and toward the mountain...


Oct 6 2012, 8:10am

Post #41 of 67 (924 views)
I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's unlikely that Smaug can die in film 2, since this would provide too much closure - people unfamiliar with the book would go "the dragon is dead - why bother with the next film?

I think DoS will end with Smaug smashing the mountainside and sealing the dwarves and Bilbo inside.

Yes, I believe the second film deviate from LotR and end with a cliff hanger. Hence film 3 being only 6 months later, rather than the usual 12.

As for the Dol Guldur sub-plot, I don't believe there will be any "second white council meeting". The meeting in the first film will end with Saruman vetoing any direct action. Gandalf will then decide to go it alone, heading to Dol Guldur after leaving the dwarves at the edge of Mirkwood. Gandalf will get into trouble in Dol Guldur, and his friends* will turn up to save him, leading to the battle.

*friends may include:

One or more companies of Elves.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Oct 6 2012, 8:17am

Post #42 of 67 (936 views)
It works both ways though [In reply to] Can't Post

If Smaug doesn't die in DOS, we then have 2 films that concentrate on more of the book were none of the action takes place.

That's not right.

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Oct 6 2012, 8:33am

Post #43 of 67 (902 views)
There is lots to fit into DoS though [In reply to] Can't Post

As well as the content from the novel and the Dol Guldur sub-plot, they have to beef up Bard so that by the time he kills the dragon he is a hero we feel invested in.

Of course, if PJ can engineer some way to get Bard to Dol Guldur he can kill two birds with one stone.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Oct 6 2012, 8:41am)


Oct 6 2012, 8:40am

Post #44 of 67 (956 views)
Oh, I agree about that [In reply to] Can't Post

But shoving the death of Smaug and the BO5A into one film is even worse.

One of many reasons why AUJ should finish around Mirkwood, in my opinion.

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Oct 6 2012, 8:44am

Post #45 of 67 (936 views)
It's certainly problamatic [In reply to] Can't Post

But putting the death of Smaug right at the beginning of the third film allows the two big action sequences to be separated by a large chunk of drama an politics.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Oct 6 2012, 8:47am

Post #46 of 67 (961 views)
I could probably accept that [In reply to] Can't Post

*If* it happened right at the beginning, and the film was over 2.5 hours. Otherwise, it's too much in such a short film.

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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 6 2012, 9:10am

Post #47 of 67 (941 views)
Just out of interest, was this [In reply to] Can't Post

A worry when the plan was two films?



Oct 6 2012, 9:14am

Post #48 of 67 (940 views)
Well, if Smaug dies in film 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

It becomes even more essential to end on a cliff hanger.

Which would probably mean Gandalf captured by Sauron in Dol Guldur.

The third film then begins with the Dol Guldur battle, as Gandalf's friends storm to his rescue.

The problem with this approach is it elevates Dol Guldur from B plot to A plot.

I prefer the Smaug battle as a sort of extended prologue to film 3. You could even mirror a prologue to film 1, with Smaug attacking Dale (dragon carefully hidden).

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Oct 6 2012, 9:15am

Post #49 of 67 (933 views)
I'm sure is was a worry for PJ, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Oct 6 2012, 9:15am

Post #50 of 67 (931 views)
I know the story outline of DOS [In reply to] Can't Post

It's all pretty much rushed up until they leave Laketown. Then Faramir finds the company, takes them all to Osgiliath for no reason and eventually sees his error and lets them go back to Dale. The last shot is them approaching Lonely Mountain.

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