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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My guess: Desolation of Smaug "where the action is"
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macfalk
Valinor


Oct 5 2012, 4:34pm

Post #1 of 67 (2827 views)
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My guess: Desolation of Smaug "where the action is" Can't Post

Thinking about it, there is SO much going on from the Eagle rescue to Smaug's death - that whole passage in the story easily warrants a good 2-3 hours of it's own, even without White Council/flashback material. In fact, with added White Council, I bet DOS will be around 3 hours long. And we don't even know for sure if it's going to end with the demise of Smaug! Even if it would end, let's say, around where Smaug leaves The Lonely Mountain and Bilbo & company starts looting the treasure, we have loads of material to cover:

1. Eagle-rescue aftermath
2. Beorn!
3. Farewell to Beorn - edge of Mirkwood
4. The whole Mirkwood passage, the river drama, the starvation, etc.
5. Dwarves captured, introduction of wood-elves culture, and Legolas, Thranduil and Tauriel.
6. Barrels out of Bond.
7. Arrival to Laketown
8. Introduction of Laketown culture and the Master, Bard and Alfrid.
9. Farewell to Laketown, into the "desolation"
10. Scouting the area, eventually finding the secret entrance.
11. Bilbo seeing Smaug for the first time, stealing a cup.
12. Smaug's wrath
13. Bilbo's second meeting in which he is spotted and has a long conversation with Smaug.
14. Smaug leaving the Lonely Mountain.
15. Bilbo & dwarves starts going through all the treasure and exploring the mountain.
16. Smaug attacking Laketown.
17. Smaug dies.



+

? White Council errands
? Radagast
? Dwarven flashbacks


The way I see it, the real "meat" of the story probably takes place in DOS, and not AUJ or TABA. Granted, some of this is speculation as we don't know for certain when it will end, or how much sideplot is going to take place, but still!



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 5:00pm

Post #2 of 67 (1550 views)
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And no so much action afterwards ! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's why I think Smaug's death will be in film three. But there is no way to be sure, we're too far from that movie....


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 5:07pm

Post #3 of 67 (1433 views)
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Agreed DoS will have much more going on than AUJ...however, based on what we know, I'd see something more akin to this unfolding: [In reply to] Can't Post

The Desolation of Smaug

1. Plotting of the Orcs/Goblins, Thorin & Co. head for Beorn's house.
2. Beorn!
3. Farewell to Beorn - edge of Mirkwood
4.
Gandalf's investigations of the Necromancer with Raddy, Beorn, Leggy/Tauriel (including a meeting of the FULL White Council)?
5. Thorin & Co. stalked through film by Fimbul the Hunter and Azog's forces
6. The whole Mirkwood passage, the river drama, the starvation, etc.
7. The Spiders, Dwarves captured, introduction of wood-elves culture, and Legolas, Thranduil and Tauriel.
8. Barrels out of Bond.
9. Arrival to Laketown
10. Introduction of Laketown culture and the Master, Bard and Alfrid.
11. Farewell to Laketown, into the "desolation"
12. The Battle of Dol Guldur, possibly final confrontation between Thorin & Co. and Fimbul's Orcs?

There and Back Again

1. Scouting the Lonely Mountain, eventually finding the secret entrance.
2. Bilbo seeing Smaug for the first time, stealing a cup/Smaug's wrath
3. Aftermath of Dol Guldur battle
4. Bilbo's second meeting in which he is spotted and has a long conversation with Smaug.
5. Smaug leaving the Mountain.
6. Bilbo & dwarves start going through all the treasure and exploring the mountain.
7. Smaug attacking Laketown, Smaug dies
8. Laketown refugees
9. The gathering storm, mobilizing Lakemen/Wood Elves/Orcs
10. Siege of the Mountain, a thief in the night
11. Battle of Five Armies
12. Aftermath of Battle, Thorin's Funeral, Refounding of Dale, Balin departs for Moria, hint of Sauron returning to/heading for Mordor
13. Other bridge elements concerning LotR (a touch the Hunt for Gollum, some Rangers guarding the Shire ETC?)
14. Bilbo's Back Again, auction outside Bagend, possible adoption of young Frodo/epilogue

IMO, Film 1 revolves primarily around setting out and surviving the Misty Mountains; it seems Film 2 around Mirkwood, Laketown and the Necromancer; and Film 3 around Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies. Of course, we don't know for sure what will land where until at least Late Summer/Early Fall of next year. Wink


My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Oct 5 2012, 5:17pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 5 2012, 5:08pm

Post #4 of 67 (1479 views)
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The *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

 Death of Smaug. I think that the death of Smaug belongs at the end of "The Desolation of Smaug". as the big payoff for that movie. Leaving it as a cliff hanger does not set well with me.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by entmaiden on Oct 5 2012, 5:42pm)


ryanw8
The Shire

Oct 5 2012, 5:11pm

Post #5 of 67 (1382 views)
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Not so much action? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did we forget the Battle of the Five Armies?

I think Smaug could be in either film 2 or 3, or both!


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 5:15pm

Post #6 of 67 (1266 views)
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Smaug must be in film 2, his name is in the title [In reply to] Can't Post

Battle of five army will be big, but it's not enough for an entire Jackson movie !


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Oct 5 2012, 5:16pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 5 2012, 5:16pm

Post #7 of 67 (1369 views)
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I really think you are loading a bit too much on "There and Back Again". [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if Smaug does not die in "The Desolation of Smaug" the movie will have to at least run up to Smaug's departure to Lake Town.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 5:23pm

Post #8 of 67 (1350 views)
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Yeah it's a big probability [In reply to] Can't Post

but if the action is very centered on Bilbo and the dwarves, then the departure of smaug to Laketown is kind of an end. Well It's true that it would be logical to end this movie with smaug's death, but i would prefere a very long smaug sequence to a very long five army sequence, so I hope we see him in the two films. It's hard to differentiate thoughts and hopes when we talk about those movies... Evil


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 5:26pm

Post #9 of 67 (1288 views)
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I thought so as well until recently... [In reply to] Can't Post

I assumed that DoS would end with Smaug taking off for Laketown and TABA would open with his attack (talk about a powerful opening!), but I've now come to think that would leave Film 2 overstuffed and Film 3 lacking...I think that a lot of TABA (such as the gathering storm, thief in the night) - and other potential drama such as Bard claiming his heritage and becoming leader to the survivors of Laketown - will all feel like part of the same "prologue to battle", meaning they won't "count" as individual storybeats. However, I suppose PJ could pull off such a structure for the trilogy, given the proper approach ETC.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 5:27pm

Post #10 of 67 (1372 views)
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No Smaug in Desolation of Smaug ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you're trying to preserve the second film of the original duology, just like people were holding on to the barrel escape as the end of film one, because these two original movies were much more coherent in there structure.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 5:33pm

Post #11 of 67 (1240 views)
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Yes, it is a conundrum... [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree a Smaug-less Desolation would be pretty strange. IMO, a way to solve it would be a Smaug cameo in Film 2 (seeing a glimpse of him in the Mountain and perhaps hearing him speak), so the audience isn't completely befuddled as to why the Dragon is mentioned in the title. I also think they're really going to have to explain the the "Desolation of Smaug" is a location in this context, (probably being a barren Mordor-like area), and not a reference to the Dragon himself...a mere passing reference ALA "the union of the two towers" isn't going to cut it here, IMO. Tongue

Also agreed that the structure for TH back when it was two films was much more cohesive and more preferable. Wink

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 5 2012, 5:33pm

Post #12 of 67 (1383 views)
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It all comes down to the Dol Guldur subplot [In reply to] Can't Post

If it is long enough, and has an explosive ending, then that could easily be the climax of DOS.

But then again, if the warg attack is the climax to AUJ, then the barrel escape could be the climax for DOS...

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 5:42pm

Post #13 of 67 (1209 views)
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Agreed Barrels out of Bond would have been/could be a great climatic sequence. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 5 2012, 5:48pm

Post #14 of 67 (1270 views)
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We know PJ loves to Start with Big Bang! [In reply to] Can't Post

Example FOTR..prologue Smacked us Right
in the Chops!
TTT..Gandalf's fall with the Balrog
as a dream in Frodo's Mind.
ROTK the original finding of the One
and Murder of Dreagol!

So that said
I believe that the dwarves
playing in the pile of Gold
(Goal accomplished?)
ends movie Two
And the final shot
is Smaug flying to Laketown.

Which allows movie three to Start
with Big Bang...Smaug's death.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 5:50pm

Post #15 of 67 (1259 views)
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I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug's death might not be the climax because like most of us reading The Hobbit, we all thought it would be the end of Bilbo's (and the dwarves') adventure and that is not the case.

It would very bizarre with what I know now to have Smaug's death to be the end. Where's the narrative push to the next act (film!) in his death.

Smaug's death serves the purpose to set the forces of middle-earth to the Lonely Mountain in pursuit of the Dragon's Hoard.

Smaug's death works better as an opener, setting up the Battle of Five Armies.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 5 2012, 6:03pm

Post #16 of 67 (1357 views)
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The geo-political build-up [In reply to] Can't Post

With Smaug dead, they can begin to show the political build up - Laketown is destroyed, and all that gold is unguarded. Perfect time for the Men to declare war on the Dwarves. That would certainly drive the next film forward.

And that could work perfectly for the end of DOS.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 5 2012, 6:04pm)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 6:06pm

Post #17 of 67 (1249 views)
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personally it seemed a little lame [In reply to] Can't Post

like a glorified water rapids ride at Disneyland.

I know Peter would have made it an exciting climax, but rereading the book, it seems like an unnecessary even to drag out. IMO

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 6:10pm

Post #18 of 67 (1237 views)
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but but but but but [In reply to] Can't Post

butt.

I know everyone is hesitant about the cliffhanger endings of The Hobbit films (that may or may not happen), but it just seems like a lot to stuff into TDOS.

However, we don't know what PJ compressed.

Will we be leaving Thranduil's Halls 1/3 of the way in or half-way in? I think that might make a big difference in how the last two films play out.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 5 2012, 6:12pm

Post #19 of 67 (1191 views)
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The only problem with the climax of DOS being the barrel escape is ... [In reply to] Can't Post

That the majority of the trilogy is concentrating on the non-important bits. 2 entire films just up to the Mirkwood escape, than a quick film of Smaug's death and the BO5A. That doesn't sit right at all.

For that reason, I think Smaug should die in DOS. 2 films shouldn't be dedicated to a half of the story, where not much is accomplished!

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 6:18pm

Post #20 of 67 (1177 views)
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Correct, I don't expect it to be the end of Film 2... [In reply to] Can't Post

Just saying that if it were big enough (say, perhaps with the barrels going through an Elf aqueduct system and guards shooting at them from the shore?), it could make an effective climax IMO.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 6:21pm

Post #21 of 67 (1145 views)
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Wait ! [In reply to] Can't Post

An entire film on Mirkwood ? and that's why they would have done 3 films instead of three ? and they would call it DOS ?

There must be a Smaug centered movie. The smaug part is the most important thing in the book, with riddles in the dark. It have to take at least one half of a movie !


burgahobbit
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 6:45pm

Post #22 of 67 (1138 views)
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Yes I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

And it's all my favorite stuff too! The first part of the journey we will be seeing in December is good material, but what I'm really really looking forward to seeing is the stuff from Mirkwood to Smaug. Then the battle afterwards I'm sure will be cool and I'm very curious to see how Sauron will become the eye (I hope it's not too cheesy) but, as you said, the "meat" of the story is in Smaug Smile


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 5 2012, 7:01pm

Post #23 of 67 (1218 views)
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My bet : we meet Smaug in TDOS and he dies in film 3. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 5 2012, 7:08pm

Post #24 of 67 (1069 views)
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As said above, I don't think anyone's suggesting an entire movie set in Mirkwood. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


elostirion74
Rohan

Oct 5 2012, 7:28pm

Post #25 of 67 (1163 views)
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I agree, but I think they will leave Smaugs death for film 3 [In reply to] Can't Post

DoS definitely is where the meat of the action is, although I think the film will be shorter than youve suggested. After all DoS must cover not only Dol Guldur material, but also the parts where Bilbo actually evolves into the real leader of the company, as well as a solid dose of character interaction.

Im curious about what kind of added material well actually get, though, besides Dol Guldur and a fleshing out of the culture of the Wood-elves.

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