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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
An Update to Bilbo's Contract
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Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 4 2012, 3:16pm

Post #126 of 145 (1439 views)
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Yikes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Shocked Even all Americans should know about it. It's the first document to understand when considering the background of the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, and the American Revolution.


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 4 2012, 3:18pm

Post #127 of 145 (1543 views)
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We aren't talking about the majority of Brit's [In reply to] Can't Post

We are talking about the (Eton and Oxford educated) prime minister.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 4 2012, 3:22pm

Post #128 of 145 (1480 views)
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A contract of sorts [In reply to] Can't Post

between the king (John) and his people (well, Barons, but you can't have everything) setting out and putting some limits on the power of the monarch (i.e. state).

It's not so much the actual terms, but the precedent that was set, that makes it important to world history.

Literally, it means "Great Charter".

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Oct 4 2012, 3:24pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2012, 3:24pm

Post #129 of 145 (1533 views)
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Doesn't mean a thing really [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because he went to Eton and Oxford doesn't mean much. His family obviously had money in their pocket, not knowledge of British history.

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Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 4 2012, 3:27pm

Post #130 of 145 (1523 views)
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Knowledge of history [In reply to] Can't Post

is the most important thing a prime minister needs.

"those who forget the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat them".

And this mistake is particularly worrying: "whoops! I forget the powers of the state where supposed to be limited",

Bring back Churchill!

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Oct 4 2012, 3:28pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2012, 3:30pm

Post #131 of 145 (1497 views)
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I'm not denying that [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just disagreeing that he should've know it simply because he had a very privileged education.

Smile

I say bring back Thatcher! Shocked But that's a topic for a very different day! Wink

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Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 4 2012, 3:31pm

Post #132 of 145 (1415 views)
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Thanks ! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 4 2012, 3:35pm

Post #133 of 145 (1449 views)
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An hour of wolves and shattered shields... [In reply to] Can't Post

...when the Age of Men comes crashing down. But it is not this day !


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Oct 4 2012, 3:35pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Oct 4 2012, 3:44pm

Post #134 of 145 (1429 views)
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history and [In reply to] Can't Post

Theres one other quality prime ministers need.....the killer instinct.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 4 2012, 4:00pm

Post #135 of 145 (1522 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?

Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 4 2012, 6:45pm

Post #136 of 145 (1418 views)
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Sorry Foromir, [In reply to] Can't Post

but that image had to be removed as it's very oversized. Below are the image guidelines from TORN 201 in the WElcome section - feel free to resize the image and repost it within this thread.

Point 2.20
The specific guidelines for posting pictures within the message body of your post are as follows: the maximum size of any picture posted should be 525 wide x 400 pixels high (or a better measure is: 210,000 pixels squared - width x height), but no wider than 670 pixels. The maximum file size per picture should be 50k. The cumulative file size of all pictures in one post should not exceed 250k (5 pictures of the maximum filesize of 50k, 10 pictures of a filesize of 25k, etc.).


Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Saurons master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


geordie
Tol Eressea

Oct 4 2012, 9:42pm

Post #137 of 145 (1447 views)
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"Does Magma Carta mean nothing to you?.. [In reply to] Can't Post

...Did she die in vain?"
Sly


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 5 2012, 1:14am

Post #138 of 145 (1517 views)
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Agreed that agreements are dwarf-like [In reply to] Can't Post

Never said they weren't.

What isn't dwarf-like, on the other hand, are modern-style agreements written in the kind of legalese hobbit insists on, and using terminology such as "remuneration" and "out-of-pocket-expenses." Those are bourgeois hobbity terms and practices, and have nothing to do with dwarves.

It is these stylistic, and linguistic differences through which Tolkien makes his point about the gulf of distance between Bilbo Baggins and Thorin Oakenshield. Indeed, Tolkien makes many points through the use of varying modes of the English language, in both the Hobbit and LOTR.


Reptile
Rivendell


Oct 5 2012, 3:54am

Post #139 of 145 (1327 views)
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It looks like it's been amended, [In reply to] Can't Post

From the stitched on parts and marginalia, it looks like Bilbo had a chance to renegotiate on several terms before signing. In the scenes that show Bilbo running along with the contract fluttering behind him, I don't think I can see the added parts. It's neat how the sewn on pieces have sealing wax on the threads, just to make it all legit.

"If you listen closely, you can hear the gods laughing."


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 5 2012, 7:08am

Post #140 of 145 (1452 views)
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I think the flappy bits are folded in [In reply to] Can't Post

See here Smile

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Foromir
Rivendell


Oct 5 2012, 7:53am

Post #141 of 145 (1431 views)
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Ah, should have known that - my bad! (resized image inside) // [In reply to] Can't Post

[/img]


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 5 2012, 10:19am

Post #142 of 145 (1442 views)
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I don't think these will be mentioned or visible in the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

they are just in-jokes, like the implicit reference to the internet.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Reptile
Rivendell


Oct 5 2012, 6:35pm

Post #143 of 145 (1356 views)
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Nice detail [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see it clearly when I zoom in on that photo. So, it will be interesting to see whether Bilbo gets to have any say at all in negotiating the terms of the contract.

"If you listen closely, you can hear the gods laughing."


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 5:06pm

Post #144 of 145 (1373 views)
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Close up pictures of the contract [In reply to] Can't Post

Here

Smile

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DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 12 2012, 6:29pm

Post #145 of 145 (1439 views)
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cool [In reply to] Can't Post

I will have to see what blanks are left to fill. The full thing is so outrageous.



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