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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Nori and the dragon [spoiler]
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Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 6:06pm

Post #1 of 31 (2518 views)
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Nori and the dragon [spoiler] Can't Post

In the comic con version of Vlog 8 wich now has been locked, between two shots of Smaug's treasure room, Jed Borphy in his Nori costume was shown in a very short interview saying something like : "lots of gold, lot to steel, I'm not afraid of the dragon and there's a lot to steel."

Knowing that Nori, in these films, will probably be portrayed as a kleptomaniac, do you think the nearness of the treasure will make him go mad and try to steal something ? It would be a big deviation from the book since it would have a lot of consequences for the dwarf : Nori has no magic ring, and Smaug would identify his dwarf smell instantly. He could even die !
We can't say for sure that Nori will do anything, but he will at least be tempted, given his personality. What do you think ?


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 3 2012, 6:15pm

Post #2 of 31 (1063 views)
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2 things ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Was it Jed speaking ... or Nori ... it might or might not say anything about the charater.

And we know Nori is a trouble maker:


Quote
Perhaps the most elusive member of The Company of Thorin Oakenshield, Nori is often in trouble with the dwarvish authorities. Deciding it might be a good time to leave town, he readily joins the Quest for the Lonely Mountain, not realizing the journey ahead may well lead him into far more trouble than he has left behind. Nobody ever quite knows what the quick-witted and wily Nori is up to, except that its guaranteed to be dodgy and quite possibly illegal. Despite rarely seeing eye-to-eye with his brothers Dori and Ori, he is nonetheless immensely loyal and will protect them by whatever means possible.


The vlog is still available online as well. Don't ask me where, my hands and mouth are bound tight. You just need to know where to look Evil Tongue

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 3 2012, 6:20pm)


elevorn
Lorien


Oct 3 2012, 6:24pm

Post #3 of 31 (790 views)
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Yikes [In reply to] Can't Post

Having him try to steal something from Smaug completely complicates things from the book perspective as immediately Smaug's rage would have been roused and he would raze the mountain side almost immediately, and it takes out a lot of the conversation that Bilbo has with Smaug, at least the reasoning that it leads to. He may say something and then the dwarves hold him back, or he may walk with Bilbo down the tunnel at first instead of Balin(is that right I just read this and cannot remember).

Besides Bilbo is the burglar. Why would they have two? Of course their is a difference between a thief and a burglar I suppose. Burglary is more of an art form in a way, and thieving is just thieving. And now I have opened myself up to all sorts of questions I suppose.



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
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QuackingTroll
Valinor


Oct 3 2012, 6:34pm

Post #4 of 31 (718 views)
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Perhaps he'll have something to do with The Arkenstone? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 6:48pm

Post #5 of 31 (805 views)
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I think it's more probably Nori [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would Jed tell us that he wants to steel fake gold from a CGI dragon ? He was really speaking like a inveterate cleptomaniac !


Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 6:56pm

Post #6 of 31 (721 views)
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To make a joke? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's just Jed goofing around behind the scenes, as we've seen most of the actors do. He might have been channeling Nori a bit there, but in the end, I don't think a desire to steal gold from a dragon is a trait exclusive to Nori; I think all dwarves, deep down, want to do that (even more so when dealing with gold that they think is theirs to begin with).

As for Nori, he will have plenty of gold of his own, I don't think he will see a need to steal anything (or at the very least, the movie won't show him express such a need, even if Nori himself would see it that way). Once they find all that gold unguarded, he will probably go all uncle Scrooge, diving right into it and swim around in it.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 3 2012, 7:05pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 3 2012, 7:04pm

Post #7 of 31 (684 views)
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Because he's having a bit of fun [In reply to] Can't Post

Like the majority of people in the vlogs Wink

In the books the Dwarves stuff their pockets of gold once they enter the chamber. Nori is no exception. He probably just is a little more excessive.

I hope no-one makes a gold angel ...

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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 3 2012, 7:18pm

Post #8 of 31 (735 views)
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Not because of his personality (spoiler) -- [In reply to] Can't Post

no one is immune to dragon sickness, everyone is tempted... though I suppose some are more or less likely to act on their urges than others. Is this what you mean?

Making the sickness dependent on temperament needlessly strays from the text, and would undermine Bilbo's force of will and the significance of his gesture when trying to broker a peaceful resolution during the siege.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 3 2012, 7:19pm)


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 8:09pm

Post #9 of 31 (652 views)
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Dragon sickness [In reply to] Can't Post

Is certainly affecting everybody, and dwarves even, more. But it seems like Nori is a person who like to steal more than to own. So when every dwarves would fill their pocket after the dragon's death, Nori would be even more exited to take something while the dragon is still the defending the treasure.
And in my opinion, dragon sickness depends in part of the temperament, force of will included, just like the ring influence : it does affect every bearer, but gollum will kill his best friend the minute he sees the ring because he is weak and foul, when Frodo will carry it across all middle earth with the purpose to destroy it. But that's not far from what you were saying, is it ?


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 3 2012, 8:18pm

Post #10 of 31 (627 views)
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Nori probably steals more than just the gold in Smaug's hoard [In reply to] Can't Post

To really beef up his character, he might steal more food at Bilbo's and Rivendell; take more treasure than the others from the Troll hoard; and even steal things from Laketown.

His thiefing behaviour is't limited to Erebor.

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Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 8:28pm

Post #11 of 31 (574 views)
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I certainly agree [In reply to] Can't Post

But if Nori is character with an arc of some importance, he's stealing habit should make him do something that matters, in good or bad, in the adventure. And I think there is no place a theft would have more importance than in Smaug's lair... it would make something else of this character than just a minor jock. But I know it's just speculation...


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 3 2012, 8:31pm

Post #12 of 31 (614 views)
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Meaningful to the plot ... hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Good point. I'm not sure what they could do to make him and his thieving meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

Perhaps he simply steals extra food/water and more practical items (rope?) that become handy later on in the Quest?

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Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 8:53pm

Post #13 of 31 (567 views)
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Will he have an arc of importance? [In reply to] Can't Post

While we can't tell for sure until we've seen the films, we have a few clues pointing us towards which dwarves are going to be the most prominent, and Nori, so far, isn't one of them. Stealing something from Smaug's lair is kind of a big deal in terms of plot development, a major event; If it is to happen (twice, I should note, another thing which I think speaks against the possibility of it happening; This is Bilbo's moment, after all) is Nori an important enough character to the story to be the one to do it?

I think it's more likely that Nori will be something of a minor jock; Not every dwarf will be able to have a big character arc. The only way I can see this happening, is if PJ and team believe that the audience will think badly of Bilbo, thinking that his theft makes him directly responsible for Smaug's rage, and the subsequent destruction of Lake-town, effectively turning the audience against Bilbo. If they are afraid of that happening, then I could see them turning someone else (like Nori) into the scapegoat. But two thefts? Unlikely, I think.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 3 2012, 9:03pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 3 2012, 8:58pm

Post #14 of 31 (516 views)
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I wonder if he is made to feel redundant by Bilbo? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if he was originally brought along to be the burglar but is supplanted by Bilbo when he joins the company? Will some professional jealousy be evident? Will they state the needfulness of the change in roles (hiring Bilbo as chief burglar) because Nori cannot be trusted?

(I wonder too if he was type cast.)


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 3 2012, 9:00pm)


Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 9:10pm

Post #15 of 31 (514 views)
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I'm curious about the relationship between Bilbo and Nori. [In reply to] Can't Post

It could go any way, really; Either Nori grows resentful and jealous of Bilbo, or he takes him under his wing and shares a few tricks with him.

I could also see it being played for some humor:
Nori: So, burglar Baggins, what's your finest theft? One time, I managed to sneak off with a ruby necklace belonging to a highly regarded dwarf lord.
Bilbo: Well, I, um...one time, I snuck into farmer Maggot's crops, and took off with some of his carrots.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 3 2012, 9:15pm

Post #16 of 31 (492 views)
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Or both? [In reply to] Can't Post

The level of trust between the Dwarves and Bilbo changes massively along the Quest.

Nori could start off jealous (perhaps fuelled by Bilbo finding the troll key?), but then grows to trust him.

Smile

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Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 9:22pm

Post #17 of 31 (485 views)
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Indeed, that's a possibility. [In reply to] Can't Post

That could very well turn out to be his character arc (and that would be a fairly simple arc, benefitting of a less prominent dwarf); Starting out jealous and wary of Bilbo, perhaps even moreso than the other dwarves, only to end up trusting him completely, teaching him a few tricks along the way.


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 3 2012, 9:29pm

Post #18 of 31 (494 views)
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The impression I got [In reply to] Can't Post

from the brief bio we have seen is Nori is more of a spiv/shady dealer/fence/con artist, rather than a compulsive thief.

The quoted line could simply refer to his motivation for initially joining the quest.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 9:50pm

Post #19 of 31 (459 views)
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Don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

But I would love it if Nori was a fast talking con like he appeared there, one who can overcome fear just by the thought of gold.



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Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 3 2012, 10:11pm

Post #20 of 31 (439 views)
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I hadn't thought of that ! [In reply to] Can't Post

"The quoted line could simply refer to his motivation for initially joining the quest."

Yep, I think you're right !


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 3 2012, 10:14pm

Post #21 of 31 (453 views)
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Or perhaps his role is to highlight Bilbo's lack of experience [In reply to] Can't Post

as occasion permits...

At the Trollshaws:
While the dwarves look on, Bilbo pulls a talking purse out of a troll's pocket.
Nori: hmpf, rookies.

At the secret door to Smaug's lair:
Bilbo: Well, wish me luck!
Nori: Whatever noob.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 3 2012, 10:17pm)


Preciousssss
The Shire


Oct 3 2012, 10:59pm

Post #22 of 31 (409 views)
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Ha [In reply to] Can't Post


LaughlolLaugh


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 3 2012, 11:43pm

Post #23 of 31 (392 views)
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I hope not [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone doesn't need an arc. Some people start off on an adventure one way, and end up the same. This story is primarily about Bilbo and Thorin, and I hope it stays that way.


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Oct 4 2012, 1:54am

Post #24 of 31 (367 views)
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And yet you say you're not a literal purist... [In reply to] Can't Post

Frown I just feel like your obsession over the material is so narrow that it can't allow for ingenuitive filmmaking.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 4 2012, 3:07am

Post #25 of 31 (373 views)
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Because of one comment I made about the heart of the story? [In reply to] Can't Post

Come on now, GoodGuy. This isn't an American political debate. You can't color me a literal purist because I make one comment about preserving the essence of the story.

I am, as I have often said, a "tone" or "essence" purist. If PJ can evoke the same feelings and thoughts, through film, that Tolkien does solely through words, than I will accept all sorts of literal changes (which is one reason why, unlike many others, I really enjoy the warg attack in TTT - that scene felt much more Tolkien to me than the entire Helm's Deep mess).

In terms of the Hobbit, the essence of the story is the conflict between Bilbo and Thorin. That is the character essence, and the thematic essence, of the entire thing. If PJ goes too far off the rails with convoluted dwarf character arcs, and the Dol Guldur material, than that would be a bit of a problem.

If, however, PJ manages to give us lots of little dwarven character arcs, and lots of Dol Guldur material, that to me feels like Tolkien, and seems to interpret was Tolkien was saying in a satisfying visual way, I will once again forgive a lot.

I don't dislike the LOTR films because they cut things like Bombadil, or added things like Theodred's funeral. I dislike the LOTR films because of PJ's style of film-making, and because of what I feel was an amateurish script that focused too intently, and sophomorically, on "dramatic reversals," awkward or overcooked "arcs" and melodrama.

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