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macfalk
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 6:21am
Post #26 of 99
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He is not that powerful in The Hobbit.
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Note that he dreaded, even expected being killed by wargs in Out of the frying pan. Would LOTR-Gandalf, aka SuperImmortalMegaGandalf? I doubt it.
That's why I like The Hobbit so much. Gandalf isn't this super-immortal wizard very unlike the other fellows in the company.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 7:01am
Post #27 of 99
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That Gandalf is SuperImmortalMegaGandalf. He is just arguing that he is capable enough to not be threatened by one orc, no matter how big and bad (the wargs are a different story, as there are lots and lots of them).
Though Ainur has conceded that if this orc (Bolg) is portrayed as some sort of lesser Maiar spirit (a so-called Boldog), it could be acceptable for him to face Gandalf mano a mano.
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macfalk
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 7:14am
Post #28 of 99
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I wasn't saying that Ainur said it
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I said that Gandalf is SuperImmortalMegaGandalf! (In LOTR). Joke aside, but he's just way too powerful to my taste - another pet peeve of mine when it comes to LOTR. This character of Gandalf, who dies and can be resurrected at will. No sense of danger or threat, as with Gandalf, the main players are basically safe.
In The Hobbit, we get the sense that Gandalf is a kind of powerful wizard who can do wonderful things, but that's kind of it - no divine Valar intervention or mentions of that he's a sort of immortal demi-god. I love that. It makes the journey the company in TH goes through much more realistic and threatening and humane and we can relate to it. When Gandalf faces the Witch-King in LOTR, we know he won't lose, and if he would, it would not have been such a big deal. He'd probably been "sent back to complete his task a second time  " As you can see, I'm not a big fan of how Tolkien made him this demi-god creature in LOTR. In TH he's just a wizard.
That's also one of the reasons I was never bothered with the scene in ROTK-EE where the Witch-King takes down Gandalf and smashes his staff to pieces. I liked that. It gave us the sense that anything could happen, unlike the books, even to our dear Mithrandir.
As always, IMO.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Oct 2 2012, 7:15am)
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Elenorflower
Mithlond
Oct 2 2012, 7:58am
Post #29 of 99
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'shockingly upset'. He was discussing his concerns in logical and well thought out terms, a thread is for discussing and it shouldnt be shut down just because it doesnt suit some peoples ideas. its a thread like many, I dont see the problem. Its ALL speculation at this point, as none of us have seen the film.
(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Oct 2 2012, 8:01am)
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 8:17am
Post #30 of 99
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Bolg is a hero orc, a warrior on a par with Thorin, Aragorn, Boromir, etc.
And Gandalf (and Maia in general) has far less raw power than many of you seem to imagine.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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Aitieuriskon
Menegroth
Oct 2 2012, 10:48am
Post #32 of 99
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that it is Bolg and not the Necromancer that is being portrayed as the source of Gandalf's fear? In the Bolg description released a while ago it said "Bolg is the offspring of Azog the Desecarator – like his father, he is huge pale orc. He is the overseer in the dungeons of Dol Guldur – torturing is his hobby. He garnishes his armor with the bones and the blood of his victims. This husky Orc fears nothing and nobody – until he suddenly meets an unexpected opponent."
I don't see how that leads us to think Bolg will be a big threat to Gandalf. If anything, the description implies it is the other way around.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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triptrap
Menegroth
Oct 2 2012, 11:36am
Post #33 of 99
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I can see no reason to worry about this stuff
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after all, what we've got are only some hints. But i must confess: the idea,if true, of Bolg being able to take down Gandalf would suck terribly to me too.
reading through the posts in this thread i always thought: why is there nobody who comes up with the actual description of bolg. And thank you Aitieuriskon, there we have it =) looks to me like it is the other way around as well
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Carne
Dor-Lomin
Oct 2 2012, 11:56am
Post #34 of 99
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To me this implies that Bolg is used to being the big, bad orc who no one messes with, until Gandalf shows up and opens a can of whoop-ass.
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Oct 2 2012, 12:22pm
Post #35 of 99
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Who says Bolg will give him any trouble at all?
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The character description implies that Gandalf defeats him.
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 12:29pm
Post #36 of 99
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Movie Gandalf isn't that powerful
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The Balrog scene being the one exception.
He uses his "blinding light' tactic twice while on a horse, but other than that he fights in battle with skill equal to that of a good human fighter. He even almost dies in RotK as Gandalf the White...to a simple orc, if not for Pippin saving him.
For continuity sake, Movie Gandalf will be the same in The Hobbit, powerful when there's seemingly no hope, otherwise equal to that of Aragorn in terms of leading and fighting skill.
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 1:42pm
Post #37 of 99
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Gandalf simply blasting an orc general apart would conflict with the Tolkien I read.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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Lusitano
Dor-Lomin
Oct 2 2012, 2:27pm
Post #38 of 99
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All this zombie, undead supernatural stuff is just a bunch of Peter Jackson made up fan fiction nonsense to me. Just proves he wouldn't know a good story if it crept up and bit him on the backside.  ...
Apart from the very misplaced consideration about jackson here , IMO...if you wish to throw daggers at someone, throw them at TOLKIEN. He named this character NECROMANCER thus leading us to believe that he practiced NECROMANCY, ie, dark arts, witchcraft, rising the dead, etc...Tolkien opened this box when he decided to name the dark presence in Mirkwood as the necromancer. If he's the necromancer, then surely we should see necromancy being done all over the place or the remainders of it. Its not made up fanfiction, its the director following, developing and exploring what Tolkien wrote. Wether it shall be good or bad, it remains to be seen.
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Carne
Dor-Lomin
Oct 2 2012, 2:34pm
Post #39 of 99
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Here's the definition of "Necromancy"
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1. The supposed practice of communicating with the dead, esp. in order to predict the future.
2. Witchcraft, sorcery, or black magic in general.
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Altaira
Superuser
Oct 2 2012, 2:52pm
Post #40 of 99
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judging or shutting down anything. I'm a user here too and enjoy participating in the discussions just like everyone else. What I read wasn't couched as educated guesses; it was presented as foregone conclusions going off on tangents that seem to have been drawn out of thin air. I truly am having trouble following the logic of how one can draw foregone conclusions from a toy box and some people batting around some ideas about it.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Altaira
Superuser
Oct 2 2012, 3:10pm
Post #41 of 99
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but, posting in bold-face and using four-letter explatives usually conveys to me that someone is upset. I *am* allowed to post as a user here every now and then  , and I'm certainly not trying to shut anything down. As a user/fan It just truly escapes me that 100% pure speculation could spark so many 'concerns' and so much agitation. One can discuss concerns in logical terms, but it doesn't mean the concerns themselves are logical. I was just trying to understand the logic of arriving at so many conclusions from what seems to me to be so little evidence.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 4:28pm
Post #42 of 99
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Ainur does seem to be upset by these possibilities, as his posting style has conveyed.
But IMO, it's more amusing than troubling. 
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Elessar
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
Post #43 of 99
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I think while some need to walk away and then come back to post. While some speciation is fun if it gets you upset you gotta walk away. I don't think Bolg will do anything other than battle Gandalf and then die.
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The Preciousss
Nevrast
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
Post #44 of 99
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I can totally see Azog desecrating the corpse
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by ripping off the beard and tossing it to a lil orc child scrambling along his legs, who holds it to his chin smiling. This could be a flashback similar to Smeagol/Deagol...
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 4:39pm
Post #45 of 99
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It is implied in his description that his encounter with gandalf will be the first time he knows fear, so it is probable Gandalf really has the advantage during the duel
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 4:41pm
Post #46 of 99
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It is possible that very strong orcs are corrupted maiar who choose to take this corporal form, so Bolg would not be such an insignificant threat if that's his case
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 4:48pm
Post #47 of 99
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In tolkien, no fight is won in advance
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The witch king is defeated by Merry and he was possibly as powerful as gandalf, who is more powerful thand Merry... so battles in Tolkien litterature aren't magic power contest. In fact, it's more about fate making a decision, so Gandalf is not unvulnerable and Bolg could be real threat to him
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Elenorflower
Mithlond
Oct 2 2012, 6:45pm
Post #48 of 99
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If Ainur wants to come here and
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let off steam, and share some concerns, even if its in BOLD, why not let him?
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Elessar
Doriath
Oct 2 2012, 6:51pm
Post #49 of 99
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As long as he's not breaking any rules there is no issue.
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There&ThereAgain
Nargothrond
Oct 2 2012, 7:37pm
Post #50 of 99
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I like the idea of Bolg having dwaf "scalps" a lot. It adds some creepy texture to Middle-Earth's less pleasant peoples.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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