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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The notion of Bolg chasing Gandalf or matching the power of The Wizard. . . What? come on now! Be serious.
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macfalk
Valinor


Oct 2 2012, 6:21am

Post #26 of 99 (1349 views)
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He is not that powerful in The Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

Note that he dreaded, even expected being killed by wargs in Out of the frying pan. Would LOTR-Gandalf, aka SuperImmortalMegaGandalf? I doubt it.

That's why I like The Hobbit so much. Gandalf isn't this super-immortal wizard very unlike the other fellows in the company.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 7:01am

Post #27 of 99 (1332 views)
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Ainur is not saying [In reply to] Can't Post

That Gandalf is SuperImmortalMegaGandalf. He is just arguing that he is capable enough to not be threatened by one orc, no matter how big and bad (the wargs are a different story, as there are lots and lots of them).

Though Ainur has conceded that if this orc (Bolg) is portrayed as some sort of lesser Maiar spirit (a so-called Boldog), it could be acceptable for him to face Gandalf mano a mano.



macfalk
Valinor


Oct 2 2012, 7:14am

Post #28 of 99 (1291 views)
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I wasn't saying that Ainur said it [In reply to] Can't Post

I said that Gandalf is SuperImmortalMegaGandalf! (In LOTR). Joke aside, but he's just way too powerful to my taste - another pet peeve of mine when it comes to LOTR. This character of Gandalf, who dies and can be resurrected at will. No sense of danger or threat, as with Gandalf, the main players are basically safe.

In The Hobbit, we get the sense that Gandalf is a kind of powerful wizard who can do wonderful things, but that's kind of it - no divine Valar intervention or mentions of that he's a sort of immortal demi-god. I love that. It makes the journey the company in TH goes through much more realistic and threatening and humane and we can relate to it. When Gandalf faces the Witch-King in LOTR, we know he won't lose, and if he would, it would not have been such a big deal. He'd probably been "sent back to complete his task a second time Unimpressed" As you can see, I'm not a big fan of how Tolkien made him this demi-god creature in LOTR. In TH he's just a wizard.

That's also one of the reasons I was never bothered with the scene in ROTK-EE where the Witch-King takes down Gandalf and smashes his staff to pieces. I liked that. It gave us the sense that anything could happen, unlike the books, even to our dear Mithrandir.

As always, IMO.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Oct 2 2012, 7:15am)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 2 2012, 7:58am

Post #29 of 99 (1338 views)
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I also didnt find Ainur [In reply to] Can't Post

'shockingly upset'. He was discussing his concerns in logical and well thought out terms, a thread is for discussing and it shouldnt be shut down just because it doesnt suit some peoples ideas. its a thread like many, I dont see the problem. Its ALL speculation at this point, as none of us have seen the film.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Oct 2 2012, 8:01am)


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 2 2012, 8:17am

Post #30 of 99 (1396 views)
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Bolg is not "an orc" [In reply to] Can't Post

Bolg is a hero orc, a warrior on a par with Thorin, Aragorn, Boromir, etc.

And Gandalf (and Maia in general) has far less raw power than many of you seem to imagine.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 2 2012, 8:18am

Post #31 of 99 (1325 views)
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I beg to [In reply to] Can't Post

differ.


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Oct 2 2012, 10:48am

Post #32 of 99 (1332 views)
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How do we know [In reply to] Can't Post

that it is Bolg and not the Necromancer that is being portrayed as the source of Gandalf's fear? In the Bolg description released a while ago it said "Bolg is the offspring of Azog the Desecarator like his father, he is huge pale orc. He is the overseer in the dungeons of Dol Guldur torturing is his hobby. He garnishes his armor with the bones and the blood of his victims. This husky Orc fears nothing and nobody until he suddenly meets an unexpected opponent."

I don't see how that leads us to think Bolg will be a big threat to Gandalf. If anything, the description implies it is the other way around.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


triptrap
Lorien

Oct 2 2012, 11:36am

Post #33 of 99 (1220 views)
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I can see no reason to worry about this stuff [In reply to] Can't Post

after all, what we've got are only some hints. But i must confess: the idea,if true, of Bolg being able to take down Gandalf would suck terribly to me too.Crazy

reading through the posts in this thread i always thought: why is there nobody who comes up with the actual description of bolg. And thank you Aitieuriskon, there we have it =) looks to me like it is the other way around as well


Carne
Tol Eressea

Oct 2 2012, 11:56am

Post #34 of 99 (1270 views)
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There we go [In reply to] Can't Post

To me this implies that Bolg is used to being the big, bad orc who no one messes with, until Gandalf shows up and opens a can of whoop-ass.


dave_lf
Gondor

Oct 2 2012, 12:22pm

Post #35 of 99 (1225 views)
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Who says Bolg will give him any trouble at all? [In reply to] Can't Post

The character description implies that Gandalf defeats him.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Oct 2 2012, 12:29pm

Post #36 of 99 (1206 views)
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Movie Gandalf isn't that powerful [In reply to] Can't Post

The Balrog scene being the one exception.

He uses his "blinding light' tactic twice while on a horse, but other than that he fights in battle with skill equal to that of a good human fighter. He even almost dies in RotK as Gandalf the White...to a simple orc, if not for Pippin saving him.

For continuity sake, Movie Gandalf will be the same in The Hobbit, powerful when there's seemingly no hope, otherwise equal to that of Aragorn in terms of leading and fighting skill.


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 2 2012, 1:42pm

Post #37 of 99 (1182 views)
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You see for me [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf simply blasting an orc general apart would conflict with the Tolkien I read.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Oct 2 2012, 2:27pm

Post #38 of 99 (1165 views)
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sinister71 [In reply to] Can't Post

All this zombie, undead supernatural stuff is just a bunch of Peter Jackson made up fan fiction nonsense to me. Just proves he wouldn't know a good story if it crept up and bit him on the backside.MadTongueMad...

Apart from the very misplaced consideration about jackson here , IMO...if you wish to throw daggers at someone, throw them at TOLKIEN. He named this character NECROMANCER thus leading us to believe that he practiced NECROMANCY, ie, dark arts, witchcraft, rising the dead, etc...Tolkien opened this box when he decided to name the dark presence in Mirkwood as the necromancer. If he's the necromancer, then surely we should see necromancy being done all over the place or the remainders of it. Its not made up fanfiction, its the director following, developing and exploring what Tolkien wrote. Wether it shall be good or bad, it remains to be seen.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Oct 2 2012, 2:34pm

Post #39 of 99 (1220 views)
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Here's the definition of "Necromancy" [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
1. The supposed practice of communicating with the dead, esp. in order to predict the future.
2. Witchcraft, sorcery, or black magic in general.



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 2 2012, 2:52pm

Post #40 of 99 (1104 views)
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I'm not [In reply to] Can't Post

judging or shutting down anything. I'm a user here too and enjoy participating in the discussions just like everyone else. What I read wasn't couched as educated guesses; it was presented as foregone conclusions going off on tangents that seem to have been drawn out of thin air. I truly am having trouble following the logic of how one can draw foregone conclusions from a toy box and some people batting around some ideas about it.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 2 2012, 3:10pm

Post #41 of 99 (1157 views)
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Call me sensitive [In reply to] Can't Post

but, posting in bold-face and using four-letter explatives usually conveys to me that someone is upset. I *am* allowed to post as a user here every now and then Laugh, and I'm certainly not trying to shut anything down. As a user/fan It just truly escapes me that 100% pure speculation could spark so many 'concerns' and so much agitation. One can discuss concerns in logical terms, but it doesn't mean the concerns themselves are logical. I was just trying to understand the logic of arriving at so many conclusions from what seems to me to be so little evidence. Crazy


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 4:28pm

Post #42 of 99 (1090 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Ainur does seem to be upset by these possibilities, as his posting style has conveyed.

But IMO, it's more amusing than troubling. Smile


Elessar
Valinor


Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm

Post #43 of 99 (1100 views)
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Deep breaths needed? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think while some need to walk away and then come back to post. While some speciation is fun if it gets you upset you gotta walk away. I don't think Bolg will do anything other than battle Gandalf and then die.



The Preciousss
Bree

Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm

Post #44 of 99 (1205 views)
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I can totally see Azog desecrating the corpse [In reply to] Can't Post

by ripping off the beard and tossing it to a lil orc child scrambling along his legs, who holds it to his chin smiling. This could be a flashback similar to Smeagol/Deagol...


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 4:39pm

Post #45 of 99 (1074 views)
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And he will know fear... [In reply to] Can't Post

It is implied in his description that his encounter with gandalf will be the first time he knows fear, so it is probable Gandalf really has the advantage during the duel


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 4:41pm

Post #46 of 99 (1099 views)
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And if it's of any comfort [In reply to] Can't Post

It is possible that very strong orcs are corrupted maiar who choose to take this corporal form, so Bolg would not be such an insignificant threat if that's his case


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 4:48pm

Post #47 of 99 (1082 views)
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In tolkien, no fight is won in advance [In reply to] Can't Post

The witch king is defeated by Merry and he was possibly as powerful as gandalf, who is more powerful thand Merry... so battles in Tolkien litterature aren't magic power contest. In fact, it's more about fate making a decision, so Gandalf is not unvulnerable and Bolg could be real threat to him


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 2 2012, 6:45pm

Post #48 of 99 (1035 views)
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If Ainur wants to come here and [In reply to] Can't Post

let off steam, and share some concerns, even if its in BOLD, why not let him? Crazy


Elessar
Valinor


Oct 2 2012, 6:51pm

Post #49 of 99 (997 views)
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Rules [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as he's not breaking any rules there is no issue.



There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 7:37pm

Post #50 of 99 (1006 views)
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I'm so late to this party [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

I like the idea of Bolg having dwaf "scalps" a lot. It adds some creepy texture to Middle-Earth's less pleasant peoples.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

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