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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
An Update to Bilbo's Contract
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DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 3:23pm

Post #1 of 145 (4738 views)
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An Update to Bilbo's Contract Can't Post

I've gathered the new images of Bilbo's contract from Weta and added to the list of things we can read:

Deciphering Dwarf Documents Part II

I've left a whole section wide open for anyone who wants to take a shot at it Wink You can reply here with suggestions, or on the page itself, and I will work them in as I get time.



The Hobbit Photo Gallery


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 3:32pm

Post #2 of 145 (2578 views)
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You're awewome! [In reply to] Can't Post

But then, you knew that already! Cool

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 2 2012, 3:34pm

Post #3 of 145 (2658 views)
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That izz... Absolutely Histerical! [In reply to] Can't Post

Who's the Lawyer in the Company?...Balin..?
I can see Ori scribbling furiously to
Transcibe this..while Bilbo is passed out
Muttering "Struck by Lightning!?"


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 2 2012, 3:52pm

Post #4 of 145 (2468 views)
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You're truly great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

Thanks for this.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 4:01pm

Post #5 of 145 (2389 views)
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I said it on your blog. [In reply to] Can't Post

These dwarves are really covering all bases.

"...in all countries whether existent now or in the future..."
"...to neither divulge nor make known said knowledge by any means, including but not limited to speech, writing demonstration, re-enactment, mime, or storage and retrieval within means or apparatus currently known or unknown, or as yet unthought of."
"Specialist equipment required in the execution of duties in his professional role as Burglar shall be purchased, procured, purloined or obtained by Burglar..."
"Portage rates for excess baggage..."
"...[should] said goods, property, and merchandise fail to arrive at the destination nominated by the Burglar, then and in such a case the present instrument is cancelled, void, and of no value."
"Let the present instrument also be cancelled if the said Burglar refrains from asking or exacting payments of the aforesaid amounts of money, goods, property or merchandise for the space of one year after..."
"Present Company shall not be liable for injuries..."

It's not exactly how Tolkien wrote it, but there's enough clever humor in there (the visual gag alone is pretty funny) that I don't mind Laugh


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 2 2012, 4:06pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 4:18pm

Post #6 of 145 (2438 views)
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Nice work, DJ! [In reply to] Can't Post

But I just came across an alternative version of the contract, which is much funnier:


Quote
Thorin and Company to Burglar Bilbo, greetings! For your hospitality our sincerest thanks, and for your offer of professional assistance our grateful acceptance. Terms: cash on delivery, up to and not exceeding one fourteenth of total profits (if any); all traveling expenses guaranteed in any event; funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives, if occasion arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.

Thinking it unnecessary to disturb your esteemed repose, we have proceeded in advance to make requisite preparations, and shall await your respected person at the Green Dragon Inn, Bywater, at 11 a.m. sharp. Trusting that you will be punctual.

We have the honour to remain

Yours deeply
Thorin & Co.
(Source: Tolkien, J.R.R. The Hobbit. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 2007.)



DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 5:11pm

Post #7 of 145 (2428 views)
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My favorite part [In reply to] Can't Post

...is the demand for pipeweed in the margin. I wonder if, when they originally read out the contract to see if everyone agreed on the wording, did each dwarf suggest something, and it was added in after the fact. That would explain why it is so long and messy.



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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 2 2012, 5:26pm

Post #8 of 145 (2359 views)
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The minute I saw the better view of the contract I thought of you [In reply to] Can't Post

"DarkJackal is going to have a field day with this one."

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


dave_lf
Gondor

Oct 2 2012, 5:46pm

Post #9 of 145 (2417 views)
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Greatness versus Genius [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives, if occasion arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.


It's "and the matter is not otherwise arranged for" that really drives this one home. A lesser author would have stopped at "if occasion arises," since that's pretty funny all by itself.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Oct 2 2012, 5:47pm)


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Oct 2 2012, 6:15pm

Post #10 of 145 (2202 views)
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This is why Weta is the greatest props department in the world [In reply to] Can't Post

Who else would go to such lengths to write out something which only a few people would ever see in full? I suppose Daniel Reeve had to write this out as well, which must be an absolute pain to do! I get tired after a bit of typing... I imagine that Martin Freeman had to have sat down one time and just read it all, probably periodically laughing as he did.

Also, SA's here to spoil our fun. Surprise surprise! Wink


burgahobbit
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 6:18pm

Post #11 of 145 (2229 views)
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Good job! That was interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are some of my thoughts. It seems that the Burglar will end up breaking a couple of those roles. I mean, is he really going to be carrying masks, disguises, skeleton keys and pry-bars? And also, he surely wrote down a bit about the dwarvish culture in his book.

"I may not have told you all of it." Is Bilbo compromising the contract after all his adventures? That would be no good. I don't want a rebellious Bilbo who signs a contract and then dismisses it. Unsure Or do the two Parties later revise the contract so that Bilbo can write his story? Just a thought...


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 2 2012, 6:27pm

Post #12 of 145 (2205 views)
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Have you sent this to TORN's Spymaster? [In reply to] Can't Post

It deserves to be on the front page!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Carne
Tol Eressea

Oct 2 2012, 6:35pm

Post #13 of 145 (2218 views)
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Can't the moderators post this on the front page? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or does it have to be sent to the Spymaster?

I've been wondering about this. I remember when many minor roles started popping up (like Craig Hall as Galion and Stephen Ure as Fimbul/Grinnah) and were all over the forum yet it never ended up on the front page.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 2 2012, 7:15pm

Post #14 of 145 (2122 views)
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Some can. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not all moderators have edit access to the home page, and not all of those who edit the home page are regulars on the discussion boards. Emailing items to spymaster@theonering.net is the surest way for an item to be considered for inclusion on the home page.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 2 2012, 7:42pm

Post #15 of 145 (2299 views)
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How is this funnier? [In reply to] Can't Post

It reads rather like a normal contract to me.

Just curious as to how you worked that out.

I find the extreme legalese in the Weta version to be hilarious - a nice poke at the silliness our legal system(s) have made us all endure.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 9:35pm

Post #16 of 145 (2249 views)
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An Update to the Update to Bilbo's Contract :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

This just dropped into the Collecting Forum (and the home page)

Bilbo's Contract by the Noble Collection

And this really useful picture of a whole lot of it!

Off to see how much we got right!



The Hobbit Photo Gallery


Fàfnir
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 10:12pm

Post #17 of 145 (1988 views)
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In the book, it's really funnier IMO. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


marcuspaine
Bree

Oct 2 2012, 10:27pm

Post #18 of 145 (2068 views)
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I know this is going to sound almost sacrilegious, but I think I like the movie's version of the contract more NT [In reply to] Can't Post

It's funny in the book too, but the contract's excessive legalese in the movie made me chuckle a bit more to be perfectly honest.


(This post was edited by marcuspaine on Oct 2 2012, 10:30pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 2 2012, 11:14pm

Post #19 of 145 (1943 views)
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You would be hard pressed to take a contract like this seriously [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading the additional fine print visible in the Noble Contract:

Conditions subsequently appended or added to this Contract are
automatically assumed to be agreed upon as if they were present,
read and understood at the signing and witnessing hereof.


Bilbo would have to be mad to sign this thing, or he always felt that it was ridiculous, and just sort of ignored it.



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(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Oct 2 2012, 11:15pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 11:17pm

Post #20 of 145 (2016 views)
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Because [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO, brevity is (more often than not) the soul of wit.

The following two lines are enough to make the humorous point. The rest of the stuff in the WETA version is simply fat.


Quote
funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives, if occasion arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.

Thinking it unnecessary to disturb your esteemed repose


That's funny. The dwarves are essentially poking fun at the modern hobbity prosaic need for contracts, and everything "written out nice and neat." Thorin also throws in a not-so-subtle jab at Bilbo's sleeping habits, which is good for character...

The movie prop sort of flips everything on its head, actually. It shows that the dwarves are excessively legalistic, which is not quite right. That legalism is a feature of the more modern hobbits, as opposed to the more adventurous and poetically-inclined dwarves.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 2 2012, 11:40pm

Post #21 of 145 (2060 views)
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Actually and I am slightly suprised to say this [In reply to] Can't Post

But this new contract is funnier in my opinion. The text contract makes its jokes well but we actually get more humorous moments in this longer version. For me, this genuinely very well done.

LR


stoutfiles
Rohan

Oct 2 2012, 11:43pm

Post #22 of 145 (2072 views)
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The book's version of everything is better [In reply to] Can't Post

Because it's what happened. PJ can (and will) run hog wild on the blanks, like what happened when Bilbo gets knocked out in the BO5A (if he even does in the movie), but if something is already described I would rather it not be "improved".


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 11:43pm

Post #23 of 145 (1928 views)
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The book contract is right for the book, but I like the movie contract for the film [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book, Thorin's longwindedness can be shown with his long speeches, but that would not work in the films. The contract is a good way of presenting the same concept in a visual way. The book contract would not be particularly visually interesting. This change works for me.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 3 2012, 12:14am

Post #24 of 145 (1927 views)
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But it's not the same concept [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's long-windedness is a very, let's say, dwarven nobility thing. There is lots of pride, ceremony, attempts at high-mindedness, and bad poetics, that are associated with that. He is a royal windbag, in other words.

The legalese of the contract is a different thing altogether. It is a joke on Bilbo, not a reflection of Thorin's character. Bilbo is a sort of Edwardian bourgeois, who likes things written down nice and neat, and Thorin is poking fun at this "grocer-like" attribute of Bilbo by writing up this faux-contract.

In the films, the contract will be a reflection of the dwarves. And frankly, that's a misinterpretation of who they are. The joke should be on Bilbo, not the dwarves.

-SA
P.S. And why would Thorin's windbaggery not work on film?


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 3 2012, 12:15am)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 3 2012, 12:18am

Post #25 of 145 (1979 views)
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I can understand finding it funnier, actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though I don't.

However, I think this pre-written contract turns everything on its head. Bilbo's the careful, cautious, legalistic, modern type. Not the dwarves.

So why did they write this up in advance, rather than just draw up a quick note in the morning, after they realized who Bilbo really was?

You see, this contract would not have been written (and certainly not in the way it is written here) unless the dwarves knew what they were expecting in a hobbit burglar.

IMO, it speaks to a rather fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between Bilbo and the dwarves. Hopefully, that relationship is better reflected elsewhere.

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