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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
SCOD: "What news from the Mark?"

GoodGuyA
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 4:33pm

Post #1 of 9 (837 views)
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SCOD: "What news from the Mark?" Can't Post

A day late, but it must be yesterday somewhere... Right? Laugh







Wasn't planning another multi-image one, but I thought what the heck, since it demonstrates the point better!

1. Jackson stated that this scene with the Rohirrim clustered around the Fellowship was deliberately shot with multiple handheld cameras to give it a more frantic feel. Do you feel that this was effective/in line with the tone of the scene as presented?

2. Aragorn turns the horsemen around in a massive display when he asks "What news from the Mark?". Do you think he found nothing odd about this Rohirrim riding out in the middle of nowhere? What information did you think he expected to gain, if not news of Merry and Pippin?

3. Speaking of Merry and Pippin, do you still feel the worry for them at this point in the film?

4. There were slight hints at antagonism between Legolas and Gimli in the first film, but in this scene Legolas actively defends Gimli with a threat. Do you feel that his action was warranted in terms of character motivation and growth? How could this budding friendship be better served, if not?

5. Any additional thoughts and comments!



Magpie
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 5:22pm

Post #2 of 9 (380 views)
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I liked this scene... [In reply to] Can't Post

or at least, the part that comes just after these screenshots.

1. Jackson stated that this scene with the Rohirrim clustered around the Fellowship was deliberately shot with multiple handheld cameras to give it a more frantic feel. Do you feel that this was effective/in line with the tone of the scene as presented?
I did. The music contributed to that as well.

2. Aragorn turns the horsemen around in a massive display when he asks "What news from the Mark?". Do you think he found nothing odd about this Rohirrim riding out in the middle of nowhere? What information did you think he expected to gain, if not news of Merry and Pippin?
I'm not sure why he would think it was odd to see horse people ranging far from their bases. I guess I'm not sure how far out in the middle of nowhere they were, though. But he's a ranger. Do you suppose he finds anything odd he encounters? I bet he's seen it all.

As for information: any information would be valuable. Rohan has many lands on its borders and, with horses, news could travel fast. This encounter could provide fresh intel.

And I think Aragorn was joking a little... at least how its played out in the movie. He jumps out from behind a rock and calls casually, 'what's up bros'.

3. Speaking of Merry and Pippin, do you still feel the worry for them at this point in the film?
I bet you mean, did you feel worry about them when you first saw this scene? :-) Now, when I watch, no... there is no worry. To be honest, I don't remember what I first felt but I probably didn't then, either. I knew what was happening and it's hard to get that fore-knowledge out of my head.

4. There were slight hints at antagonism between Legolas and Gimli in the first film, but in this scene Legolas actively defends Gimli with a threat. Do you feel that his action was warranted in terms of character motivation and growth? How could this budding friendship be better served, if not?
That's a good question and the one that made me hit reply. The relationship, as it develops, between Legolas and Gimli is one of my favorite aspects of the book and one I've thought a fair bit about. I've always seen their experience in Helm's Deep as defining. So you've made me wonder about this scene and Legolas' strong reaction to the threat on Gimli. Especially since Gimli's bit of a smart mouth is just the thing that *could* cause Legolas to think he had it coming.

I just recently watched a short series from the Discovery Channel in Amazon Prime streaming. It was called 'Out of the Wild Venezuela'. The experiment (reality program) involves dropping 9 people off in the wilderness with minimal support and supplies and have them walk out to civilization. The experiment is harsh and brutal on those participating. I started thinking about how their experience mirrored/paralleled characters in LOTR. They had to dig deep to find the mental, physical, and psychological strength to keep going as their bodies broke down from fatigue and hunger. And, they grew to understand how they relied on the others to help them and keep them going. Without the 'fellowship' of people, they couldn't individually do it.

Not everyone got along in this group but, as the series - and the experiment - progressed, the participants kept talking about how much they relied upon the others and how they were bonded in a way they had never anticipated. This reminded me of similar comments about those who fight in wars together.

A bond can be forged because two people have personal connections. But a bond can also be forged just become two people are going through the same thing together and, at some point, they know they will be there for each other if it is needed.

I'm not sure if Legolas and Gimli have bonded on a personal level yet. But they've been through a lot and I don't think Legolas is going to stand by and let one of his group be threatened by people he doesn't know a thing about.

In one of my repeat viewings of TTT - early on in my final total of 13 - when Legolas whips out his bow and aims it in Eomer's face... I involuntarily said softly but firmly, "yeah!" I was so impressed with his defense of Gimli like that I couldn't help myself. I wasn't so soft that the person in front of me couldn't hear, though... he turned around to look at me. I think mostly to get a mental image of who would make this sort of comment. :-)



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FlyingSerkis
Rivendell

Sep 30 2012, 8:30pm

Post #3 of 9 (326 views)
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Regarding the relationship between Gimli and Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the great things about the FOTR extended edition is the scene where Gimli tells Leggy about Galadriel's gift. It shows Gimli with a new-found respect for elves, and Legolas possibly making a re-appraisal of him.

Plus, fighting alongside each other in Moria and Parth Galen as well as all that travelling together has by now forged strong bonds between all of the fellowship, as evidenced by the three hunters' absolute determination to find Merry and Pippin.

However, this moment where Legolas defends Gimli is the real turning point where you start to see how close they are becoming. It's a nice moment to watch.


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 9:00pm

Post #4 of 9 (300 views)
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good point about the gift giving scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I've thought, in the book, that it was Gimli's appreciation for the Crystal Caves - not for what can be mined from them, but for the sheer beauty of them - was when Legolas softened his attitude toward Gimli.

And, I think the Gimli was able to think about the caves less like a Dwarf and more like an Elf because of his love for Galadriel. When she granted him the gift of her hair, she said, `These words shall go with the gift,' she said. `I do not foretell, for all foretelling is now vain: on the one hand lies darkness, and on the other only hope. But if hope should not fail, then I say to you, Gimli son of Glóin, that your hands shall flow with gold, and yet over you gold shall have no dominion.

So it makes sense that the movies created a shortcut to that end by having Legolas opening admiring Gimli's love and appreciation of Galadriel. (that scene plays out just a little differently and with a different focus in the books)

In the book, by having that 'come together' moment (to my eyes, anyhow) happen in the trip between Helm's Deep and Isengard - we get Legolas softening toward Gimli and agreeing to visit the caves with him *and* you get Gimli softening toward Legoas and agreeing to revisit Fangorn Forest and try to see it through the Elves eyes. So you get the two way street of it.

In the movies, it's a little more one-sided, but still works.



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Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


Sep 30 2012, 11:58pm

Post #5 of 9 (312 views)
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Legolas lets bygones be bygones [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Jackson stated that this scene with the Rohirrim clustered around the Fellowship was deliberately shot with multiple handheld cameras to give it a more frantic feel. Do you feel that this was effective/in line with the tone of the scene as presented?

Yes, it was pretty effective, and by current standards, the camera work was rock-solid. (Something about the encirclement scene really resonates. When my sons were smaller and they would act out parts of the movies, this scene would play, and they would jump up and stand back-to-back, slowly turning around.Laugh That's the picture that appears in my mind's eye when I hear the music.)

2. Aragorn turns the horsemen around in a massive display when he asks "What news from the Mark?". Do you think he found nothing odd about this Rohirrim riding out in the middle of nowhere? What information did you think he expected to gain, if not news of Merry and Pippin?

I think of it as simply a conversation starter. I think Aragorn wants to have proper leave to transit Rohan, and he's trying to make contact on his own terms instead of being intercepted.

3. Speaking of Merry and Pippin, do you still feel the worry for them at this point in the film?

No, they're fine.Sly

4. There were slight hints at antagonism between Legolas and Gimli in the first film, but in this scene Legolas actively defends Gimli with a threat. Do you feel that his action was warranted in terms of character motivation and growth? How could this budding friendship be better served, if not?

This always seem to fit perfectly to me. In a movie with this many character stories, there is only so much screen time that can be devoted to each arc. Magpie's comments on the closeness that develops among people engaged in a team struggle are right on. I would point out that the movie establishes Legolas as a fierce friend right at the beginning. At the Council of Elrond, Legolas rises to Aragorn's defense very forcefully when he thinks Boromir is not showing proper respect to Isildur's heir. Since Legolas should have little or nothing personally invested in the kingship of Gondor, I infer a pre-existing friendship with Aragorn, and his passion in the matter reflects a personality trait that is on display again against Eomer.

On a related note, Legolas seemed even more antagonistic toward Boromir than Gimli at the CoE, and there was even less conciliatory interaction between the two later on, but Legolas looked almost as grieved over Boromir's death as Gandalf's, so it would appear that he is not the sort to cling to old animosities.

5. Any additional thoughts and comments!

I would like to discuss Aragorn's approach to this situation in the films vs. in the book, but let's wait and see the next SCOD.


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 3:19am

Post #6 of 9 (304 views)
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holding true to each other... [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the ending of FOTR, when Aragorn gives that private rallying cry speech to Legolas and Gimli, and they agree to "hold true to each other". That, to me, in movie-verse, was the moment where Legolas and Gimli acknowledged that they had become comrades in a cause, and re-committed themselves to it. Legolas may be cool and calm in battle, but he has never been one to sit back -- he takes action and speaks up, particularly when he's "roused" by something, and his defiance of Eomer here, on behalf of Gimli, is great to see.

I also loved the circling horses, and the way it conveyed the power of Rohan, when it's "harnessed". A really well done scene, and like Magpie, I think the music very powerfully supports and enhances the scene.

Weaver



Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2012, 11:41am

Post #7 of 9 (240 views)
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Late post again! But loved this SCOD and the last one! [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Jackson stated that this scene with the Rohirrim clustered around the Fellowship was deliberately shot with multiple handheld cameras to give it a more frantic feel. Do you feel that this was effective/in line with the tone of the scene as presented?

Yeah I'd say yes. To be honest however, I couldn't really tell that it was done that much in a different way.

2. Aragorn turns the horsemen around in a massive display when he asks "What news from the Mark?". Do you think he found nothing odd about this Rohirrim riding out in the middle of nowhere? What information did you think he expected to gain, if not news of Merry and Pippin?

He was aware of the Uruk-hai roaming the place, so of course hte fact that these Rohirrim were crossing this way meant that they must have encountered the Orc company. So he was interested in that respect too I'd say. Plus, their mission/allegiance.

3. Speaking of Merry and Pippin, do you still feel the worry for them at this point in the film?

Well I wasn't worried that much as I had read the book... I couldn't imagine that PJ'd kill them off anyway Tongue

4. There were slight hints at antagonism between Legolas and Gimli in the first film, but in this scene Legolas actively defends Gimli with a threat. Do you feel that his action was warranted in terms of character motivation and growth? How could this budding friendship be better served, if not?

Hmmm no clue. I liked it, but yes it was a bit weird hehe

5. Any additional thoughts and comments!

I like this whole bit, but I think it was better in the book IMO


--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2012, 11:52am

Post #8 of 9 (237 views)
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Noted!! :¬) // [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would like to discuss Aragorn's approach to this situation in the films vs. in the book, but let's wait and see the next SCOD.


--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Oct 1 2012, 5:24pm

Post #9 of 9 (522 views)
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The Wall of Spears. [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Jackson stated that this scene with the Rohirrim clustered around the Fellowship was deliberately shot with multiple handheld cameras to give it a more frantic feel. Do you feel that this was effective/in line with the tone of the scene as presented?: Very effective - especially when the camera was angled so that you were watching it from the trio's point of view; the wall of spears being pointed at you and the thundering voice of "What business does an Elf, a Man and a Dwarf have in the Riddermark?!" Ooh, I can feel the goosebumps now.

2. Aragorn turns the horsemen around in a massive display when he asks "What news from the Mark?". Do you think he found nothing odd about this Rohirrim riding out in the middle of nowhere? What information did you think he expected to gain, if not news of Merry and Pippin?: Well... he would have wanted to know where the Uruk-hais were and if they had passed by the Rohirrim.

3. Speaking of Merry and Pippin, do you still feel the worry for them at this point in the film?: I could not help but feel a little bit worried about them; they are heading towards Isenguard after all.

4. There were slight hints at antagonism between Legolas and Gimli in the first film, but in this scene Legolas actively defends Gimli with a threat. Do you feel that his action was warranted in terms of character motivation and growth? How could this budding friendship be better served, if not?: I thought it was quite nice the way Legolas defended Gimli and that this action was done out of his motivation.

5. Any additional thoughts and comments?: Great questions here.

......"Since the first time I met you,
..I couldn't seem to forget you.
.......And lately I seem to find,
..That you're always on my mind.
.......Whenever I see you smile,
..It makes my life so very worthwhile.
......And ever since the very start,
..You have always been there in my heart.
..Then I heard that you felt the same way,
........................................................................And those words were so easy to say."

 
 

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