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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Wargs at Night - Lessons from "The Grey?"
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 30 2012, 2:16am

Post #1 of 27 (1885 views)
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Wargs at Night - Lessons from "The Grey?" Can't Post

I recently sat down to watch the Grey, starring the inimitable Liam Neeson (still wish PJ had found a role for him somewhere...). I was struck by how horrifically frightening the wolves are in this film - particularly at night, as their eyes shine in the darkness. Having seen a very tiny glimpse of the wargs in the trailer, I have to wonder if PJ will take some lessons from the film. People here have referenced "Gmork" from Neverending Story, but a slightly more realistic, yet primally disturbing, portrayal as in the Grey would be more satisfying, IMO.

I was always deeply disappointed by the omission of the warg attack after Caradhras, but hold out hope that "Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire" will settle that score, and give us a truly frightening scene.

What say you all?


Milknut
Rohan


Sep 30 2012, 2:22am

Post #2 of 27 (780 views)
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Haven't seen that film, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that the warg attack in FOTR would have been nice. It would have been a pretty big sequence and I see why they cut it (the pacing at that point in the film is very quick... they trimmed a LOT to make room for their bulkier sequences like Rivendell before and Moria after), but it would have been cool to see in the extended edition. I guess they added a warg attack in TTT to make up for it. Wink

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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2012, 2:25am

Post #3 of 27 (780 views)
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well, as much as I love these new designs, I was still hoping for even more wolf like beings [In reply to] Can't Post

but yes, maybe The Grey was inspiration, we'll see! Cool I haven't seen The Grey, but I heard that the wolves didn't overall come off as that scary... but if you say so.



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(This post was edited by Xanaseb on Sep 30 2012, 2:30am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 30 2012, 4:12am

Post #4 of 27 (777 views)
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Hmmpf! They didn't make up for the removal of Gandalf's awesome response to the wargs anywhere in TTT [In reply to] Can't Post

"In the wavering firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow. He rose up like the monument of some ancient king set in stone. . . stooping like a cloud, he strode to meet the wargs. . . high in the air he tossed the burning brand, it flared. . . like lightning and his voice rolled like thunder. . . " You know the rest.

Anyway, SAppetite, if the wargs and the Wizard are terryfying, a happy lad I will be, though I won't wait with breath bated.

As to Gmork or The Grey. . . I think the best place is the happy medium. The size, teeth and malice of Gmork, perhaps with the greater lupine exactness of The Grey.

In Reply To
I agree that the warg attack in FOTR would have been nice. It would have been a pretty big sequence and I see why they cut it (the pacing at that point in the film is very quick... they trimmed a LOT to make room for their bulkier sequences like Rivendell before and Moria after), but it would have been cool to see in the extended edition. I guess they added a warg attack in TTT to make up for it. Wink


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 9:50am

Post #5 of 27 (571 views)
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I've never watched The Grey [In reply to] Can't Post

But as one who is still frightened by Gmork, realistic versions of him would be truly terrifying, and truly great for these films.

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Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 30 2012, 11:47am

Post #6 of 27 (545 views)
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I cant remember exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

was that in Hollin? round the camp fire. It was scary as it was out in the open at night, they must have heard but not seen themselves get slowly trapped in from all sides. shudder.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 11:55am

Post #7 of 27 (518 views)
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Yes, it was the night after they came down from Caradhras / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Lightice
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 3:28pm

Post #8 of 27 (473 views)
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The reason was probably plot-related [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"In the wavering firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow. He rose up like the monument of some ancient king set in stone. . . stooping like a cloud, he strode to meet the wargs. . . high in the air he tossed the burning brand, it flared. . . like lightning and his voice rolled like thunder. . . " You know the rest.



I suspect that they left out that scene in the FotR because they didn't want the fans asking themselves for the rest of the movies why Gandalf does just throw fire at the enemies at any other point of the trilogy.


Misto
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 3:42pm

Post #9 of 27 (498 views)
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Lessons from "The Grey"? I'd rather not! [In reply to] Can't Post

God forbid they start any stupid wolf-stunt like with "The Grey" Sorry, but I had to fight so hard not to laugh out loud during that movie... I'd rather take an ordinary wolf that looks and behaves just like that.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 30 2012, 4:30pm

Post #10 of 27 (452 views)
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Just referencing the eyes outside the reach of the firelight, and the sounds [In reply to] Can't Post

That is scary, no matter how you look at it!


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 30 2012, 4:30pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 30 2012, 4:34pm

Post #11 of 27 (430 views)
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Doubt that [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sure it was simply script and pacing-related. They probably felt it didn't make sense to have both the warg fight, and the Watcher, in quick succession. Personally, I would rather they kept the wargs in, and cut the Watcher, if they had to make a choice. I do think the pacing at this point is far too quick, and is the one place where the fellowship simply seems to be hopping and skipping from location to location. The warg scene would have relieved that a bit.

Plus, re: your point, PJ and company could have easily have either omitted that particular detail of Gandalf's response to the wargs, or simply showed that Gandalf needs wood in order to set things on fire! Smile


Misto
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 8:46pm

Post #12 of 27 (316 views)
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Well... yeah... might work [In reply to] Can't Post

Still I'm not too much into the "animatronic wolf" - because that's what the wolves from "The Grey" felt like to me.
Supposing they manage to bring the glowing eyes into something that doesn't make one think "What the hell did they use as a 'wolf'?" it might add some extra suspense. But I'd be quite happy to see a few teeth and something that resembles an actual wolf... unlike TTT. The wargs there made fore as much of a WTF-moment to me as did the entire "The Grey"-movie. Maybe I'm a bit overly minute but I just prefer something that looks genuine overall over a relatively easy to discover trick. *shrugs and sneaks out of thread*


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2012, 10:21pm

Post #13 of 27 (289 views)
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haven't actually seen "the Grey" yet [In reply to] Can't Post

But looked up images of the wolves online and think they are perfect in look, its the director's responsibility to sell their actions to the audience. But I think something based in reality is much scarier than something that resembles a cartoon version of something real. The large black wolf in Red Riding Hood was pretty good too, as would be a less exaggerated version of the wolf from 300. Dire wolves would be acceptable too. Basically hairless wolf-like creatures who don't look real and look super imposed over the action behind them, doesn't sell it to me anyways. I realize what we saw in the trailer was but a brief glimpse of the wolves or wargs running down a hill after the dwarves, but what we did see doesn't even look as realistic as the Hyena wargs we got in TTT. To be honest about it. At least those creatures felt like they were "in" the scene, these feel like they were put there artificially and are not actually "in" the scene They should at least feel like real creatures who are really there instead of something that looks fake and placed on top of the action IMO.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 30 2012, 10:51pm

Post #14 of 27 (271 views)
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We only see around 1 second worth of wargs in the trailer [In reply to] Can't Post

They were submitted to be a part of the newest trailer weeks ago, which means what we see is something that have definitely been improved since then.

And as I said, it's 1 second and I don't think we should judge it based on that

As has also been mentioned several times in other threads, the wargs have to look like beasts for the audience to feel hatred towards them. No one is going to yell "Yeah, Gandalf, burn that evil wolf!" is we have some cute, fluffy ones on screen. "The Grey" got a lot of flack for exactly this reason. A pack of wolves killing people, something they would not do in real life. Even if they had people would still bring up "natural instinct".

By making the Hobbit wargs ugly and beastly it will be easier for the audience to side with Gandalf and the dwarves killing them in gruesome ways (fire for example).


(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 30 2012, 10:52pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2012, 11:06pm

Post #15 of 27 (271 views)
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And making them realistic [In reply to] Can't Post

plays into the believability factor. Something that looks fake to me looks fake and is not believable. Which detracts from the realism Peter Jackson claims to strive for. Some people IMO are just too sensitive and need to learn to differentiate movie animals from real life animals. Because an animal is portrayed one way does not mean that is how they really act. They need to learn a movie is a movie not real life. Just because an animal looks real but is portrayed aggressive and dangerous and real looking doesn't mean that that is how the actual creature is. I don't see a bunch of LOTR fans running out of the theaters and killing every wolf they see if the Wargs look like real animals. But I do find many people finding them more believable as creatures if they resemble something real.

I know if a snarling animal were at the bottom of a tree I was in were there I don't care if people think they are normally cute and non aggressive creatures I'm gonna do whatever I have to to get them away including shooting flaming pinecones at them Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Sep 30 2012, 11:08pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 12:23am

Post #16 of 27 (255 views)
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One simple way to do that [In reply to] Can't Post

Make them much larger than regular wolves, and give them ghostly eyes (blue or red). That way, they can still have the form of a wolf, but seem obviously demonic.

In the one second we saw from the trailer, they looked like large rodents, to be honest...

But the scroll artwork seems much different, so, perhaps there is hope.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2012, 12:29am

Post #17 of 27 (245 views)
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Agree 100% // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 1 2012, 12:53am

Post #18 of 27 (262 views)
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Have you had a look at the toys? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know where to grab a pic atm, but toys and collectibles are being released en masse tomorrow, so have a look. If they're anything like the toy, they're BIG and they're HAIRY which makes me fairly certain the one we caught a glimpse of in the trailer was in very unfinished form. And, yes, the scroll artwork definitely looks more like the toy.

There *is*, indeed, hope. Smile


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Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 1 2012, 1:33am

Post #19 of 27 (247 views)
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Well, real wolfs fletching their teeth are definitely not cute. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 8:24am

Post #20 of 27 (207 views)
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An ommission which made me disgusted. [In reply to] Can't Post

Mad

In Reply To

In Reply To
"In the wavering firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow. He rose up like the monument of some ancient king set in stone. . . stooping like a cloud, he strode to meet the wargs. . . high in the air he tossed the burning brand, it flared. . . like lightning and his voice rolled like thunder. . . " You know the rest.



I suspect that they left out that scene in the FotR because they didn't want the fans asking themselves for the rest of the movies why Gandalf does just throw fire at the enemies at any other point of the trilogy.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Oct 1 2012, 8:33am

Post #21 of 27 (213 views)
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Warg action figure [In reply to] Can't Post

Courtesy of Herr-der-Ringe...

http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/.../fimbul-cb115825.jpg

Definitely looks more wolf-like than the "Hounds of the Baskevilles" we glimpsed in the trailer!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 2 2012, 12:21am

Post #22 of 27 (101 views)
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whats sad is the toy actually looks better than the wargs in the trailer [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around and the toys looked like cheap knock offs of the film merch instead of what we have seen so far.Angelic


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 2 2012, 1:33am

Post #23 of 27 (85 views)
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The toy is actually probably closer to the final version than the trailer is. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 2 2012, 1:42am

Post #24 of 27 (84 views)
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one can hope...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 2 2012, 9:28am

Post #25 of 27 (64 views)
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They're going to be plastic? / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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