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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Sep 26 2012, 10:10pm
Post #26 of 77
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why change the amount of times Gandalf leaves the company. I can think of only 2 once before the trolls and at the eves of Mirkwood....the first one being the only one we should see in film 1 and only for a short time (mere hours) from my understanding of it. Gandalf never actually left the company when they were abducted by the goblins and taken to goblin Town he merely hid and followed them instead of allowing himself to be captured with them. So its still only one absence before Mirkwood I don't see any "keeps disappearing" at all in the book.
"Where did you go to, if I may ask?" said Thorin to Gandalf as they rode along
"To look ahead" said he.
"And what brought you back in the nick of time?"
"Looking behind," said he.
"Exactly!" said Thorin; "but could you be more plain?"
"I went on to spy out our road. It will soon become dangerous and difficult. Also I was anxious about replenishing our small stock of provisions. I had not gone very far, however, when I met a couple of friends of mine from Rivendell."
"Where's that?" asked Bilbo
"Don't interrupt!" said Gandalf. "You will get there in a few days now, if were lucky, and find out all about it. As I was saying I met two of Elrond's people. They were hurrying along for fear of the trolls. It was they who told me that three of them had come down from the mountains and settled in the woods not far from the road: They had frightened everyone away from the district, and they waylaid strangers.
"I immediately had a feeling that I was wanted back. Looking behind I saw a fire in the distance and made for it. So now you know. Please be more careful, next time, or we shall never get anywhere!"
"Thank you!" said Thorin.
which says to me...
1 either Gandalf meets Radagast instead of Elves from Rivendell
OR...
2 Peter Jackson changes things and Gandalf leaves the company more than once before Mirkwood meeting elves from Rivendell AND meeting Radagast
Not sure which option it will be at this point but I truly hope they have that scene of them meeting back up after they have rested and grabbed what supplies they can from the troll horde, with mostly Tolkien's own dialogue in place since it is exceptionally great dialogue to begin with. No changes are needed to it IMO. If it has to be one or the other which there might be other options there. I prefer option 1 keeping Gandalf with the company and only leaving once personally
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 11:10pm
Post #27 of 77
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Thorin an Great Goblin action figure
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If the great goblin and thorin come in one set of action figures, couldn't it be because Thorin and the great goblin will have a much more elaborated confrontation than in the book ? We already know that if Gandalf and Bolg are in the same action figure box, it is because they will have an epic duel in dol guldur. Maybe this announce that gandalf will rescue the dwarves later than in the book, letting Thorin and the great Goblin have a duel before ?
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Fàfnir
Nargothrond
Sep 26 2012, 11:45pm
Post #29 of 77
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At least we know Gandlf wins ! ^^ /
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 11:51pm
Post #30 of 77
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Indeed. Lol. Though it seems more likely they must draw, since Bolg will almost certainly
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be back at the Battle of Five Armies, to meet a thing he fears in Beorn. But shouldn't he learn to fear Gandalf>? Just saying. Pretty sure Bolg wouldn't be able to fight any Balrog to an anything beyond Bolg's own funeral in under thirty seconds.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Sep 26 2012, 11:55pm
Post #31 of 77
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I don't put anything past Peter Jackson
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I think it diminishes the Wizard a bit to suggest that one big orc would be able to fight him to a draw. . . but he could stand against Nazgul and a Balrog. Bolg is just no Balrog. Bolg is not a Power. Bolg leading a small group of orcs against Gandalf sure, but Bolg in single combat???  Just call me cynical but at this point I don't put any radically drastic changes past him. This will likely be the last voyage into middle earth. So why not shoot for the stars and just include what ever he wants, no matter how ridiculous? He has to make Bolg seem like he is the witch king of the Hobbit movies, were already getting a Zombie Azog from the character descriptions, why not super Bolg,... faster than a running Warg, more powerful than all the istari, able to leap over Orthanc in a single bound, Look to DolGuldur, its an Ent, its a cave troll... NO, its Super Bolg.  I can see it now with his dwarf beard cape and skeletal costume 
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 26 2012, 11:58pm
Post #32 of 77
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AHAHAHAHAHHA. . . . wait. . . wait. . .
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I was thinking your superBolg joke was funny. . . then I realized it might come true. . . and I had a damn seizure.  I think it diminishes the Wizard a bit to suggest that one big orc would be able to fight him to a draw. . . but he could stand against Nazgul and a Balrog. Bolg is just no Balrog. Bolg is not a Power. Bolg leading a small group of orcs against Gandalf sure, but Bolg in single combat??? Just call me cynical but at this point I don't put any radically drastic changes past him. This will likely be the last voyage into middle earth. So why not shoot for the stars and just include what ever he wants, no matter how ridiculous? He has to make Bolg seem like he is the witch king of the Hobbit movies, were already getting a Zombie Azog from the character descriptions, why not super Bolg,... faster than a running Warg, more powerful than all the istari, able to leap over Orthanc in a single bound, Look to DolGuldur, its an Ent, its a cave troll... NO, its Super Bolg. I can see it now with his dwarf beard cape and skeletal costume
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Sep 27 2012, 12:36am)
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Sinister71
Dor-Lomin
Sep 27 2012, 12:06am
Post #33 of 77
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then I realized it might come true Yeah that's my fear too, that there just adding and adding material no matter how ludicrous it would be in Tolkien's world just to get as much into these middle earth films as possible.. because they know this is the last hurrah.
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Carne
Dor-Lomin
Sep 27 2012, 12:16am
Post #34 of 77
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His action figure description say something like "but then he meets an unexpected opponent" referring to Gandalf. So obviously Gandalf is the better one.
And I see nothing wrong with making Bolg into a powerful bad guy. In the movies Gandalf is not the "pew pew" super wizard so why should it matter if he has a hard time fighting Bolg?
(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 27 2012, 12:17am)
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Elessar
Doriath
Sep 27 2012, 12:22am
Post #35 of 77
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I'm sure some tweaking will be done. I truly doubt any of it with this sequence will be dramatic but that may not stop some from having a seizure over it. lol
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 27 2012, 2:16am
Post #36 of 77
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That statement does not necessarily refer to Gandalf.
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Following the book's narrative, it more likely nods to Beorn by film three.
As to the power of Gandalf. . . he is certainly portrayed as being far more powerful than any single orc, be that orc a giant orc badass or no.
How long would said orc hold its own against The Nine, gathered together, by the time of Fellowship. Gandalf does this, from dusk until dawn (oh not in the movies, I know, but all the same).
In book and film he defeats The Balrog. Could you see any orc standing against any Balrog for more than 15 seconds? Foolishness. And the "pew pew" is an irriquisite strawman. No one said anything about "pew pew" (what is that, anyway? I am assuming its lazers shooting from his eyes or some such thing). But how much can you diminish him before he becomes, as a wizard at least, something of a dissapointment at best and a bit of a joke at worst. To suggest that any one orc would be anything akin to his equal is both inaccurate and demeaning. His action figure description say something like "but then he meets an unexpected opponent" referring to Gandalf. So obviously Gandalf is the better one.
And I see nothing wrong with making Bolg into a powerful bad guy. In the movies Gandalf is not the "pew pew" super wizard so why should it matter if he has a hard time fighting Bolg?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Tim
Dor-Lomin
Sep 27 2012, 2:25am
Post #37 of 77
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I think it diminishes the Wizard a bit to suggest that one big orc would be able to fight him to a draw. . . but he could stand against Nazgul and a Balrog. Bolg is just no Balrog. Bolg is not a Power. Bolg leading a small group of orcs against Gandalf sure, but Bolg in single combat??? Just call me cynical but at this point I don't put any radically drastic changes past him. This will likely be the last voyage into middle earth. So why not shoot for the stars and just include what ever he wants, no matter how ridiculous? He has to make Bolg seem like he is the witch king of the Hobbit movies, were already getting a Zombie Azog from the character descriptions, why not super Bolg,... faster than a running Warg, more powerful than all the istari, able to leap over Orthanc in a single bound, Look to DolGuldur, its an Ent, its a cave troll... NO, its Super Bolg. I can see it now with his dwarf beard cape and skeletal costume You're cynical.
King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim. Tim: Quite.
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 27 2012, 5:55am
Post #38 of 77
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He's made some controversial decisions, sure, but as far as I can tell they've been intended to be in the service of telling a good story.
And please don't flame me for that, purists. 
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 27 2012, 5:58am
Post #39 of 77
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But honestly, I would rather have someone who dislikes the book, yet is a master film-maker, adapt it for the screen.
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 27 2012, 5:59am
Post #40 of 77
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I liked the films. Maybe that makes me a fool, but I tend to think not.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 27 2012, 6:17am
Post #41 of 77
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Its just that IMO, a film adaptation of one of the most beloved books of all time should have been more than just "liked."
They should have been unrivaled masterpieces of film.
My expectations were just too high.
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Milknut
Nargothrond
Sep 27 2012, 6:20am
Post #42 of 77
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Okay, I thought they were unrivaled masterpieces of film. The point stands.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 27 2012, 6:22am
Post #43 of 77
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You thought they were great, and I didn't.
There are no fools, or geniuses, in that equation. It's all just taste.
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dormouse
Gondolin
Sep 27 2012, 8:00am
Post #44 of 77
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Because he doesn't want his films to be ridiculous?
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He'd rather people enjoyed them, and he knows how well-known the story is and how - dare I say - nit-picking certain sections of the audience. What interest could he possibly have in ruining the whole thing?
I agree with Tim - you're cynical!
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JWPlatt
Hithlum
Sep 27 2012, 8:21am
Post #45 of 77
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Peter Jackson's stated interest is making a movie he wants to see. So it just depends on that. I think he's a tad more mindful of the audience than that, but it is what he said.
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Sep 27 2012, 8:51am
Post #46 of 77
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Gandalf's power is largely spiritual, not physical. Against a "demonic" being, like the Balrog, "angelic" Gandalf is more powerful. But against a physical opponent, like a powerful orc or cave troll, someone like Aragorn would be more effective.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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dormouse
Gondolin
Sep 27 2012, 10:11am
Post #47 of 77
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That's true of anyone who does anything artistic...
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The finished product has to be done in the way that seems best to the artist. If it's a commission then changes might have to be made, but if the artist doesn't like it in the first instance there's a good chance no one else will either.
That said, it still seems a bit pointless to me to suggest all sorts of ludicrous things he might do with the story, just because he can.
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Sep 27 2012, 12:38pm
Post #48 of 77
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There is a "Bolg and Gandalf" action figure pack, according to this. IMO, the evidence points toward Bolg being killed by Gandalf (comparatively) early in the trilogy, and Azog taking his place as the big baddie at Bo5A.
I would further speculate that Azog will meet his end at Dain's hands rather than Beorn's for symmetry reasons.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 28 2012, 1:18am
Post #49 of 77
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Here is why that doesn't add up or make sense..
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First, Spiritual and Magical power has a certain value, otherwise there would be no need to fear a Balrog or The Witch King anymore than one would fear a Troll or an orc chieftan (other than intelligence, perhaps). If the notion is, as long as you don't wield any significant magic, no one can wield magical force against you, then none need be worried about the sorcery of The Enemy.
Also, there are obvious questions that beg asking. . . if your magical wards can shatter a Demon enchanted, twenty foot, flaming sword, why can it not do the same to an orc blade? If you can hurl Saruman The White himself across his own throne room, why can you not hold down a single orc with your power and run him through? Obsessed with fighting fair>? Gandalf's power is largely spiritual, not physical. Against a "demonic" being, like the Balrog, "angelic" Gandalf is more powerful. But against a physical opponent, like a powerful orc or cave troll, someone like Aragorn would be more effective.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Sep 28 2012, 1:30am
Post #50 of 77
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Also Carne, even by the less than book potent version of Gandalf seen in LOTR
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and glimpsed in TTT (atop Zirak-Zigal), the powers he does display makes the notion of him being "hard put to it" by one orc stretches credulity. Obvious questions beg asking. . . if your magical wards can shatter a Demon enchanted, twenty foot, flaming sword, why can it not do the same to an orc blade? If you can hurl Saruman The White himself across his own throne room, why can you not hold down a single orc with your power and run him through? Obsessed with fighting fair>? His action figure description say something like "but then he meets an unexpected opponent" referring to Gandalf. So obviously Gandalf is the better one.
And I see nothing wrong with making Bolg into a powerful bad guy. In the movies Gandalf is not the "pew pew" super wizard so why should it matter if he has a hard time fighting Bolg?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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